RIP Bard

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Originally Posted by Yoruichi4478

Done any numbers yet? Does the charge time make it worth losing the dps you could be doing while you're charging up?

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What? This statement makes zero sense lol. Lemme explain it for you;

1.5 second cast time.
2.5 second global recast.
When instant, you fire the shot immediately, then wait 2.5 seconds to fire a new shot.
When not instant, you cast for 1.5 seconds, deal your damage and then wait 1 second to fire a new shot.
In a 2.5 second period, you may only use ONE skill anyway. Off globals not counted, but you can fire them before/after the cast anyways.

The only thing you lose is Auto Attack, which the flat 20% buff to *all* your abilities more than makes up for and the WM/GB abilities hit like trucks compared to previous skills without the change ...

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Originally Posted by The_Last_Dragoon

Like it or not, Wanderer's Minuet is needed to keep up respectable damage, and just because we can't make figure 8's while we dps doesn't mean that the class is any less fun or interesting.

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If Minuet wasn't a requirement for the new skills added, we would still be doing respectable damage even without it. The main issue I have with it currently is that the loss of auto-attacks is basically the same as losing the 20% damage buff. I think a lot of people underestimate just how much it really adds to our DPS overall considering the AA fires off regularly and automatically without affecting GCD.

I do like the change to Barrage though. It feels far more powerful now, and you can get some lovely numbers out of it. RIP criticals though :'(

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Originally Posted by Lyaha

They were in the perfect position to make a class that played like this, but they just gave Bard and Machinist the same skills, talk about lazy.

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Machinist is not like Bard in the slightest, lol. If you want to talk about an actually broken class it would be Machinist. It's like they decided to take Atma RNG and mix it together with a Gladiator combo, but you don't get to finish the combo unless you get the procs.

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Originally Posted by The_Last_Dragoon

Machinist is not like Bard in the slightest, lol. If you want to talk about an actually broken class it would be Machinist. It's like they decided to take Atma RNG and mix it together with a Gladiator combo, but you don't get to finish the combo unless you get the procs.

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More like a Black Mage. Machinist DPS looks like a Heart Monitor. Uptime and Downtime.

You have periods of massive damage during Reload, low damage when its down and you're not proccing. Sometimes you get lucky and get a full combo several times in a row without Reload, sometimes you force it with a Quick Reload at the right time.
Split Shot spam is similar damage to BRDs Heavy Shot spam.

If anything gets adjusted, it'll be potencies across the 3 shot combo. 140/180/200 is pretty low. Every when you consider the Rooks 80 Potency autos and the Bishops sexy 60 potency endless AoE spam.

I've only done msq and the instances that are contained so far and I've seen very little content where I end up having the luxury of standing around long enough to consider WM.
Especially another reason for our moving around is that when pugging, you don't know who you're going to end up with and how they play so being able to move and dps to adapt to said player/s positioning in places to avoid getting tagged by something or whatever the case may be is a thing. Taking it off to move to a diff spot in that case is one thing, but then once you find a new spot and u want to put it back on, you once again have to stop dpsing to sing WM. It should be instant like the diff fists monk has.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

You're a bard yourself. Join in the chorus, you'll feel a lot better to get those frustrations out in the open instead of pretending everything is wonderful. There's only so much saccharine sweetness you can sup before you start feeling ill.

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Yh maybe so, but i do not play bard as my main. I dont really care if it gets a "nerf"

Any guide rotation?
I haven't lvl up to lvl 60 yet so I don't know complete rotation.

So far Wanderer's Minuet combo that I used as a opener is "Raging Strikes + Barrage + Empyreal Arrow" hit pretty hard actually. How about the Battle Voice, is this song enhance the Wanderer's Minuet too?

But I still miss my mobility.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

What? This statement makes zero sense lol. Lemme explain it for you;

1.5 second cast time.
2.5 second global recast.
When instant, you fire the shot immediately, then wait 2.5 seconds to fire a new shot.
When not instant, you cast for 1.5 seconds, deal your damage and then wait 1 second to fire a new shot.
In a 2.5 second period, you may only use ONE skill anyway. Off globals not counted, but you can fire them before/after the cast anyways.

The only thing you lose is Auto Attack, which the flat 20% buff to *all* your abilities more than makes up for and the WM/GB abilities hit like trucks compared to previous skills without the change ...

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1st of all many people who use and used parsers say that Auto attack was around 20% of their DPS.
You also lose lot of damage with your Off GCD skills, because really often happens a moment, when you have Bloodletter ready but you are stuck in casting bar.
According to parses of people at level 60 (reddit for example) it seems that WM cannot compare with Autoattack and Off GCD abilities and the 20% buff just is not enough. And when Alexander will open and we will have to avoid even more AoEs, it won't be enough at all.

At this moment WM is good only in starting rotation and then when you have atleast 3 self bufs aligned and the fight does not require much movement from you.
So all we got from this expansion is a bunch of skills that we won't use more often than a few times per boss fight.

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Originally Posted by Itseotle

Actually, Auto-attacks account for 25% of Bard DPS, so the 20% trade-off is even worse than it may seem. Here's an example of Turn 13:
http://i.imgur.com/uJCveKg.jpg

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You miss out on potential Bloodletter procs by not being able to spam it while channeling other skills.

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Unable to queue Flaming Arrow while channeling. You lose time and DPS by dedicating that second or so to use the skill and place it.

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Using Repelling Shot, landing, then queuing your Heavy Shot spam, the Heavy Shot will be interrupted, and you'll have to recast it.

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After applying your dots the first time, you have to pause before using Sidewinder, or else it won't proc as having both DoTs. Inefficient use of cooldowns.

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Unable to queue Flaming Arrow while channeling. You lose time and DPS by dedicating that second or so to use the skill and place it.

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Currently a bug exists locking you out from casting skills for 1~10 seconds.

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Originally Posted by nuyu11

Any guide rotation?
I haven't lvl up to lvl 60 yet so I don't know complete rotation.

So far Wanderer's Minuet combo that I used as a opener is "Raging Strikes + Barrage + Empyreal Arrow" hit pretty hard actually. How about the Battle Voice, is this song enhance the Wanderer's Minuet too?

But I still miss my mobility.

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I would still use (almost) KrietoRs initial rotation and add WM on the end.
Quelling Strikes
Hawk's Eye
Raging Strikes
---- These 3 happen prefight
Bloodletter
Straight Shot
Blood for Blood
Windbite
Internal Release
Venomous Bite
X-Potion Of Dexterity
Flaming Arrow
Barrage
Wanderers Minuet
Empyreal Arrow
Sidewinder
Iron Jaws
Turn off Wanderers Minuet

But some people say that Iron Jaws don't refresh the buffs on dots, which would mean you have to put internal release even before windbite.. because otherwise it would be a huge waste.
I still need to get to 60 to try everything out, so I hope that KrietoR or someone else will get into the testing already. :D

karma for stealing orthodox ninja suit from me.