I think Summoners are fine.

Some of you guys have terrible math when it comes to rotations. I've already addressed this in a previous post, but if you are going by theoretical max dps for a summoner single target, you have to realize the following:

1.) You only get 24 abilities per minute minus fester/energy drain for damage.

2.) Minus contagion which I think is highly overrated on this board (none the less useful), you are spending 10-12 of those actions per minute refreshing dots, so you have generally around 12 actions per minute to do whatever you want, minus any time spent by moving around or avoiding things.

3.) Even if you were to do nothing else and ruin in between all the dot refreshing, effectiveness is cut around half. At 180 per 2.5 seconds thats about 75 dps per second, minus half due to not being able to cast this and nothing else. So realistically around 37.5 dps, though thats a pipe dream if its a fight that requires you to run around. Fester non-crits without raging strikes is about 644 (+ or - 5% due to the way combat works). Thats 3 of them every 60 seconds or 322 damage per 10 seconds. Fester, in its most basic form without crits or RS, will give about 32.2 dps.

In combination of all of this, fester + ruin 1 or 2 is around high 60s or low 70s DPS. Keep in mind, if you do nothing but fester, ruin, and 4 dot dps rotations, eventually you'll run out of mana by three minutes. If you use ruin 2, you'll probably run out of mana by 2 minutes. Energy drain will prolong rotation, but you'll suffer burst dps because of it.

This was tested with a relic w/ full DL + Myth jewelry.

If you're using the FFXIV-APP parser, ALL DoTs are being calculated wrong. It uses the initial hit's damage as it's per-tick damage as well. This goes for any class that has a damage over time ability. Example: My Thunder III hits for 118 on its initial hit, but does about 72 dmg/tick avg. (+/- 5%). The parser increased my damage by 118 per tick instead of its actual damage. Phlebotomize does this as well. This behaviour leads to very erratic parsing of DoTs in the app. For Miasma, it increases the damage by the "DoT Average" per tick, regardless of a crit or not. Technically in this case, the parser is UNDERrepresenting Miasma's damage, not inflating it. Bio does the same thing. This often under-represents the damage. Needless to say the parser handles DoT abilities in a very incorrect manner.

Note: This is as of the latest update on 9/21.

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Originally Posted by Astorie

This often under-represents the damage. Needless to say the parser handles DoT abilities in a very incorrect manner.

Note: This is as of the latest update on 9/21.

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In the same token, its very easy to inflate bio/bio 2 damage as well. The only time the parser under represents bio/bio 2 damage is when the parser hasn't recorded any damage for that particular session. Otherwise, when you have ruin followed by bio, for example, you can see 200-400 damage ticks on the parser.

Doesn't change that DoTs are still ticking for 400+ damage and then your pet hitting for 150+...that's about 550 damage every 3 seconds AND not to mention fester/ruin during times you don't need to reapply. Those numbers alone should tell you how strong summoners are and that no one can match them in DPS

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Originally Posted by savant07

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Your (or anyone else's for that matter) dots are not ticking at 400+ without benefiting from CDs or a outside factor. To even get close to that would have to count raging strikes or crit, possibly have miasma 2 thrown in either way. Just to get a sense of how outside anyone is hitting for 400 damage/3 seconds on dots, you'd have to use Bio, Bio 2, Miasma, Miasma 2 and get some good crits. While it doesn't count particularly the same, you can shadowflare to easily put you over the top. However, its just not sustainable. Going out with a normal rotations of 4 dots, ruin, fester, would expel your mana pool in 3 minutes. If you simply change that to ruin 2, you'd lose all your mana in 2 minutes. Adding rotations of miasma 2 is wildly inefficient and while shadow flare is just wasteful with any bosses that tend to move around a lot.

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Originally Posted by Solen

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I only need 1/4 of my DoTs to crit for the tick every 3s to hit for ~380-390. That's without miasma II. RS I was seeing crits of 500-510~. This is without Relic+1.

It is sustainable with a BRD.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

I only need 1/4 of my DoTs to crit for the tick every 3s to hit for ~380-390. That's without miasma II. RS I was seeing crits of 500-510~. This is without Relic+1.

It is sustainable with a BRD.

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And your crit rate is gonna be somewhere around 11 to 12 percent. As I mentioned, you are gonna need miasma 2 and a crit just to hit 400 per tick. No one here, even with a relic +1, is going to be averaging 400 per tick unbuffed without outside influence.

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Originally Posted by Solen

And your crit rate is gonna be somewhere around 11 to 12 percent. As I mentioned, you are gonna need miasma 2 and a crit just to hit 400 per tick. No one here, even with a relic +1, is going to be averaging 400 per tick unbuffed without outside influence.

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Well, yeah. I never refuted that.

But it's not rare for crits to happen, especially when you have 4 separate instances of being able to crit per 3 seconds. Roughly, every 3s you have a 35% chance for at least one of the 4 DoTs to crit.

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Originally Posted by savant07

According to the parsers people swear. Lots of posts about summoners being top. Even people streaming Coil turn 4 and coil turn 5 say so. Summoners are OP in DPS and will most likely be toned down a bit.

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Parser count all DoT to the summoner. It kind of funny in titan only up to the heart when the parser came out I wasn't even playing seriously and I did 65k dmg to titan and a bard did 25k titan? Obviously something is wrong there.