Gamespot ARR article. HOW DARE YOU DOUBT OUR YOSHI-P!!

WoW came out at a time when there was really very little competition. It had the rare advantage of prebuilt lore and a marketing division that took full advantage of celebrity interest in the game. But having the best options, compiling the standards, it didn't impress people anymore. Just look at the history we have. We've had games do WoW prettier, do it better, do it deeper. We've had games that claimed to be radically different when all they had where minor variations and additions to the old structure. None of them have kept a strong customer base for long without turning to free to play tactics.

Don't get me wrong, I'm really looking forward to owning a baby demon wall, and I really do want the game to do well. But I'm really having trouble seeing how this will be different from the many other floundering releases of the past near decade. We'll just have to see if the tactic of FF fanservice will really keep a crowd, or if they'll quickly move on like with every other MMORPG.

Well honestly this is one of the best reviews by far also from gamespot. ->http://www.gamespot.com/features/sta...eborn-6404191/

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Originally Posted by Drygir

Well honestly this is one of the best reviews by far also from gamespot. ->http://www.gamespot.com/features/sta...eborn-6404191/

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That was a really good review, maybe biased towards wanting to like the game but so am I so I liked it! From the comments it sounds like there is some excitement about the game.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

prebuilt lore

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which only a minority of the player-base actually ever really cared about, but yes- it does give developers quite a lot more to pull from.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

and a marketing division that took full advantage of celebrity interest in the game

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celebs didn't start endorsing the game until late 2007, which was TBC-era. they already had 6-8+ million subs by then

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Originally Posted by Gramul

But having the best options, compiling the standards, it didn't impress people anymore

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then why does WoW still have 10 million subs in spite of people crying they want 'different'? and while clearly if you add up every gamer who plays MMOs other than WoW you get a much larger number than that 10 million- why do all the games which tout themselves as being 'different' end up with a fraction of that number before fizzling out and fading away completely?

because nearly everyone who cries about wanting "something different" doesn't know what 'different' is. and for those who do- they all have a different idea of it. and so in effect trying to make a game 'different' for all the people who are dissatisfied with WoW, you end up making a game only a small fraction of those people will actually play. it's impossible to make one that's simultaneously 'different' in every way that each and every one of those people wants it to be.

and so your audience who doesn't care about what it is, but rather how well it's done- they stick together playing the same game. and your audience crying about wanting something 'different' gets fragmented across the fringes of the MMO landscape endlessly searching for that niche title which is 'different' in that specific way which pleases them most.

there will never be a game that's simultaneously 'different' in every way yet cohesive enough to bring together all those players. so in the end you have a hypothetical majority which in practice splits up into many many many overly vocal minority groups all clamoring for the same nebulous thing which not even *they* know how to properly quantify or articulate.

how exactly is a game company supposed to base a successful model around chasing that endlessly shifting and fragmenting demographic? so to succeed, they build around what has been proven to work, and they try to execute this as well as possible.

it's like a gourmet chef. sure, you can take risks and try to make something different and new- but first you have to cover all your fundamentals, and the ingredients have to work together. if you lose sight of your fundamentals and/or your ingredients don't mesh and/or your execution falls flat... being new/different ends up being completely irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

I'm really having trouble seeing how this will be different from the many other floundering releases of the past near decade

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and i've already explained why they floundered. you're still hung up on it all being the same and can't see the forest for the trees. it had nothing at all to do with what they were and everything to do with not doing it well enough. the kind of content ends up being largely irrelevant as long as it's high quality and exists in a large enough quantity to keep players busy.

because when games do that successfully, they survive and flourish- no matter how many people cry about wanting something different, and no matter how loudly they cry about it.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

lol You guys think this is bad. You should read the one in Penny Arcade.

I'm sorry Yoshi wasted his breath on some of these people.

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that's ok. penny arcade hasn't been relevant in years.

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Originally Posted by fusional

that's ok. penny arcade hasn't been relevant in years.

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That was sarcasm, right? HTML really needs a sarcasm tag.

I definitely think the first PA Report article was heavily biased. The second one feels more level-headed. I can't say that I'm terribly surprised by the reaction, as I'm sure the folks at PAR want to see something new and different in terms of gameplay just as much as the guys at Gamespot, and every other gaming press site out there.

I wonder if FFXIV will be able to overcome its tarnished reputation, emerging from the ashes of 1.0's server architecture like some kind of gaming phoenix. Personally, I'm cheering for it, but I'll admit that I'm decidedly biased.

All true sadly, a game that is like other game is bound to be the same game just different color coat.

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Originally Posted by fusional

which only a minority of the player-base actually ever really cared about, but yes- it does give developers quite a lot more to pull from.



celebs didn't start endorsing the game until late 2007, which was TBC-era. they already had 6-8+ million subs by then



then why does WoW still have 10 million subs in spite of people crying they want 'different'? and while clearly if you add up every gamer who plays MMOs other than WoW you get a much larger number than that 10 million- why do all the games which tout themselves as being 'different' end up with a fraction of that number before fizzling out and fading away completely?

because nearly everyone who cries about wanting "something different" doesn't know what 'different' is. and for those who do- they all have a different idea of it. and so in effect trying to make a game 'different' for all the people who are dissatisfied with WoW, you end up making a game only a small fraction of those people will actually play. it's impossible to make one that's simultaneously 'different' in every way that each and every one of those people wants it to be.

and so your audience who doesn't care about what it is, but rather how well it's done- they stick together playing the same game. and your audience crying about wanting something 'different' gets fragmented across the fringes of the MMO landscape endlessly searching for that niche title which is 'different' in that specific way which pleases them most.

there will never be a game that's simultaneously 'different' in every way yet cohesive enough to bring together all those players. so in the end you have a hypothetical majority which in practice splits up into many many many overly vocal minority groups all clamoring for the same nebulous thing which not even *they* know how to properly quantify or articulate.

how exactly is a game company supposed to base a successful model around chasing that endlessly shifting and fragmenting demographic? so to succeed, they build around what has been proven to work, and they try to execute this as well as possible.

it's like a gourmet chef. sure, you can take risks and try to make something different and new- but first you have to cover all your fundamentals, and the ingredients have to work together. if you lose sight of your fundamentals and/or your ingredients don't mesh and/or your execution falls flat... being new/different ends up being completely irrelevant.



and i've already explained why they floundered. you're still hung up on it all being the same and can't see the forest for the trees. it had nothing at all to do with what they were and everything to do with not doing it well enough. the kind of content ends up being largely irrelevant as long as it's high quality and exists in a large enough quantity to keep players busy.

because when games do that successfully, they survive and flourish- no matter how many people cry about wanting something different, and no matter how loudly they cry about it.

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Someone who understands how not only MMO's work, but genres in gaming themselves. Very nice post. I have tried preaching this a few times, but it didn't stick. :\

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Originally Posted by Gramul

I can totally and fully understand where Gamespot is coming from.
Most MMO's these days look better than WoW in terms of basic fidelity. story in MMO's has been attempted before, but it doesn't really hold an audience for long.

The game lacks originality in gameplay and structure and that's a big issue for the MMO community that feels like the genre is stagnating itself of rehearsing the same game in different clothes. And that's my prime concern with ARR. As beautiful as it is, as much improved it is over ARR, as much as the story may be interesting, it's still a standard MMO.
No offense meant to the development team who have poured their lives into it.

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Pretty much this. FFXIV seems to offer more stability and orthodox features as a base, with some features taken from other MMOs. In that sense, the article is spot on.

I'm pretty fine with Yoshida-san's answer. One thing bothered me though: graphics as something unique? Good graphics might be pleasing for the eye, no doubts about that. But does it make or break a game? It appears that for many it does, especially in the West. Which is rather silly and sad to be honest. Graphics alone don't say anything about the game mechanics nor the fun you get out of it. You don't even have to look far for an example: FFXIV 1.0: best mmo graphics around that time, nearly zero content.

As for why WoW still has such a high population: why change to something a) quite similar to what you already have invested a lot of time and money into b) something with an unique feature that fails in every other aspect? With that said, it doesn't mean FFXIV is bad. It's merely not really unique beyond being a FF MMO. This could swing both ways depending on how the orthodox features are packaged, though. Quality, attention to detail, all pieces working together. This is what most "unique" MMOs as well as cheap clones fail at. This, in my eyes, is what is going to help ARR shine.

And no need to gather pitchforks and torches just because someone is not riding the hype wave. That doesn't change the fact that Yoshida-san and the dev team are doing quality work and are honest about what the game is going to provide. The rest is up to people. Most of us who didn't leave will play the game anyway. The rest will either give it a chance or won't. Yoshida-san said he wanted word of mouth to be the way people get to know about ARR in one of the earlier interviews, not the ads and media, so just do your work. If you're in the beta, help the devs polish the game. Spread the word after it's out. If you like it, chances are people you get along with will like it too.

For reviews, I prefer IGN. They posted an article about XIV yesterday: http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/02/...a-realm-reborn