M6s in PF is the most miserable and unfun high end fight in the game

Just to be clear, M6S MCH is not fine by any means, if we're comparing it to DNC. Is Machinist single target better? Yes, but everyone will single target the first jabberwock if the mus are dead by then, and this also frees all 4 ranged players to hit the second cat. DNC will also allow the party to swap to the third cat earlier, due do their melee always hitting the SE manta. Machinist is better for the first yan and cat (before raid buffs), and that's it.

This cope thought that MCH is fine and has its strengths is what's keeping it at the bottom for 3 expansions now. Numbers can't be argued.

My only observation in add phase is that please if you see mch or smn in your party help with the cat, I have seen many partys that the meeles completely ignore the cat when they kill the mus, sometimes the ranges don't reach the cat because it moves a lot and goes from end to end, if you have it close please hit it.

I am still stuck on adds on M6S its not getting any better. I have beat all the other savage fights but this one is way too hard and I think should be nerfed. Although SE very rarely adjusts fights in this game. I play a tank so if the DPS constantly can't kill the adds there is not much I can do to make them die faster. The other problem is people will leave usually after 2 or 3 pulls, I seen groups where someone leaves after 1 pull even. I don't think the 2nd fight should take this long to clear. Gear does not really help much because you don't gain much only beating the first fight and getting tomestone gear.

I have a feeling that this fight will just cause a lot of players to skip this tier because the fight is so frustratingly hard to prog. You spend more time waiting in the PF for people to join then actually doing the fight only to have someone leave after a couple pulls.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I could go on but jobs have AoE capabilities. Maybe people just don't know how to play them and coordinate their AoE burst/gauge at the relevant times?

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Not only coordination, but mainly, management. The add phase requires all jobs to come into it with as many resources available as possible. As a SAM, I have a tendo follow up stored, all 3 sen, full kenki gauge, and 2nd charge of meikyo is ready in 30 seconds when the add phase starts. However, experience shows, that many people simply do their normal rotation before, i.e. don't pool anything and just blast the boss as much as possible, but also use their 2 minute abilities (many of which are the main source of cleave damage for a class) when it becomes available, unloading it on the 1st yan. Even the "hold burst till 2nd wave" is not enough, because that usually means that everyone is bursting the 1st manta / mu pack, and is then completely out of juice for 1st jabba. The key is here to learn how to properly manage resources available, and deal as much damage as is necessary, not as much as possible.

Another example, many classes build resources faster doing aoe, i.e. SAM can build blue and purple sen in 2 gcds instead of 3 gcds like in the single target rotation. But just because the resources were built with aoe, doesn't mean they need to be spend on aoe. This all isn't helped by pfs over-reliance on guides spelling everything out in detail or it doesn't exist (with the first raidplan popular in w1 telling healers to dps the 1st mus, because mechanics weren't properly understood), as well as the unwillingness to change to a better strategy if it comes out. Quite frankly, I also suspect that one very large reason that this fight is such an insurmountable wall in pf is the reliance on plugins to do their rotation, which utterly fail during a phase with so many moving parts. The tank being a bit slower to move the adds is no problem for a dps actually playing, but with autoroation that can mean that all the cleave is completely wasted. Frankly, just from this aspect, SE need to do more such fights that require holding burst a bit and spacing it out.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Most jobs have had "gauges" since Stormblood so that they can store up their firepower if needed. I know we are all used to saving that for bosses, but maybe the test is to actually use that on trash for once and manage it strategically for once.

I agree that looking at the classes, some of them aren't designed as ideally as others for situations like this, but ultimately gauges are a standard feature of most jobs now and MCH have cleared the fight.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

but maybe the test is to actually use that on trash for once and manage it strategically for once.

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It is. The add phase is 4 dps checks, not one. And the first wave being only single mobs but right during the time window 2 minute burst comes up is likely very deliberate to bait people into burning up their CDs if they mindlessly do their normal rotation. The adds also live quite a long time (the whole phase is 2 min something), so dots on most mobs tick their whole duration. Yet, I've seen people not even considering that, because the guide says "focus". The difference between a properly coordinate and managed approached compared to the "just add more violence" approach that many parties in PF do, is absolutely massive. Add to the fact that it's also a very valid strategy to have the yans be dragged around for the 2nd jabba, resulting in yan #2 actually dying, which means the OT will be very much alive and healer resources are freed up. But good luck trying to convince pf of changing strats.

I cleared in PF last Tuesday and was just exhausted afterwards to the point that I still haven't tried M7. It took about 240 pulls to clear, it was getting close to double what it took to get past Wicked Thunder. On pull 151 or something was the first time I saw past adds, and the first few minutes of the fight are really boring and easy so it was kind of maddening to do that over and over again. I think I put in several 5-6 hour sessions just trying to push through and it was so tough.

What was really getting me frustrated was how inconsistent PF was on this fight, I would get a group that could get past adds and they couldn't comprehend the lava segment at all. It's literally just "step in your tower" and if you're using Hector or a raidplan it's an entirely fixed position and people still wouldn't do it. I got extremely lucky on Tuesday and the group was a 6/8 static and we cleared the fight in four pulls.

I tanked the entire thing, what usually got me killed wasn't lack of damage it was just healers straight up not healing or mitting. There's a good bit on the last add phase where you pretty much need to just gcd heal both tanks as they are completely out of mits at that point and often times either me or the other tank are just not healed and we die cause "gcd healing is bad" is so engraved in a lot of healer's brains. I would put up mits for the raid wide and often times my mit was the only thing up, so the party just died to the raidwide over and over cause the shield healer wouldn't mit it. This fight was pure misery to do.

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Originally Posted by Servebotfrank

I tanked the entire thing, what usually got me killed wasn't lack of damage it was just healers straight up not healing or mitting. There's a good bit on the last add phase where you pretty much need to just gcd heal both tanks as they are completely out of mits at that point and often times either me or the other tank are just not healed and we die cause "gcd healing is bad" is so engraved in a lot of healer's brains. I would put up mits for the raid wide and often times my mit was the only thing up, so the party just died to the raidwide over and over cause the shield healer wouldn't mit it. This fight was pure misery to do.

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congratulations, i have only managed to get through the add phase ONCE, usually wipe to enrage squirrels or enrage boss because people just dont kill them fast enough.
I guess i have to wait for week 7 when people got the Tome Weapons to do more damage, i am close to throwing the towel.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

I am still stuck on adds on M6S its not getting any better. I have beat all the other savage fights but this one is way too hard and I think should be nerfed. Although SE very rarely adjusts fights in this game. I play a tank so if the DPS constantly can't kill the adds there is not much I can do to make them die faster. The other problem is people will leave usually after 2 or 3 pulls, I seen groups where someone leaves after 1 pull even. I don't think the 2nd fight should take this long to clear. Gear does not really help much because you don't gain much only beating the first fight and getting tomestone gear.

I have a feeling that this fight will just cause a lot of players to skip this tier because the fight is so frustratingly hard to prog. You spend more time waiting in the PF for people to join then actually doing the fight only to have someone leave after a couple pulls.

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It's nothing hard about phase. You just need to know to cleave, move (if you are a tank), and focus order. The fact that the vast majority have no clue how to handle something so basic is really concerning. I would say SE needs to continue to ramp up the difficulty. It's clear that making 2 joke tiers was a huge mistake.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

It's nothing hard about phase. You just need to know to cleave, move (if you are a tank), and focus order. The fact that the vast majority have no clue how to handle something so basic is really concerning. I would say SE needs to continue to ramp up the difficulty.

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Agreed. SE should keep it up and then players will start to learn how to play and become better, then mechanics like this won't be such a surprise to them - like they weren't in Heavensward.