Don't do chaotic raid again

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

That's a fair point, regardless, expecting grind to do anything but barely address the lack of content this expansion is laughable.

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This is because most peoples' problems are precisely just that, and they are problems that have near enough wholly been satiated with a substantive relic and exploratory, at this point they are almost synonymous with a lot of players.

Besides, most people in this thread talking about grinds have already discussed this very topic into a different stratosphere on other threads. At this point it's just vain effort that amounts to very little than screaming into the void. If this feedback were actually addressed and read by the developers then frankly it would've already been acknowledged that relic content (ideally exploratory) needs to come sooner in the patch cycle, like the first iteration of exploratory missions did in HW (Diadem), which is essentially the foundation that Eureka and Bozja were built on.

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Originally Posted by FuturePastNow

Yeah. Just comparing casual content, I don't think there's truly been a significant difficulty increase. The two optional 7.0 dungeons are the only thing I can point to and say are harder than the equivalent content of prior expansions, but they're harder in ways a player who has completed 100 levels of this game ought to be prepared for. Jueno is harder then the level 90 alliance raids but it's not harder then the 70 or 80 ones. Arcadion M1-M4 aren't a difficulty increase no matter how bad some people (guilty) may be at dodging hearts.

But I don't do Savage because I'm not interested in spending weeks learning fights, I simply do not find it fun to fail at something over and over for hours a night while scheduling my other activities around that. And I'm just, like, not a hardcore player. I've done the first two DT extremes and the unreal but I haven't been able to clear ex3, so I think that's my difficulty limit. Maybe in 6 months I'll get a day 180 clear of the Chaotic, or maybe not.

I have no problem with them adding high end content, not everything is for me, but it is a bit disheartening to have basically nothing to look forward to for... 3 more months? Four?

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May as well make that 4 years, this is the last time many people were excited for content that wasn't high-end. 2 Years if you want to count the initial Island Sanctuary from the last time we actually had something.

It's disheartening, but this is par the course, there's an inability to reach a balance with the content developed so they constantly yoyo between developing casual content and high-end content. Give it until after 7.4 then it will be high-end content that gets put on the backburner until 8.05

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Originally Posted by Collin_Sky

There is nothing less fun than depending on 23 other people to not screw up
The playerbase has shown it cannot handle 24 man content when it's even simple stuff like regular alliance raids
It's an absolute mess in chaotic

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It is clear that you are an impatient person who does not understand what day 1 means....

Please, do us all a favor and avoid chaotic, you don't speak for the community.

Chaotic is great and difficulty is also good and balanced. While it can be punishing, the mechanics are also fairly easy to grasp and there's alot of forgiveness with regards to the ressing.

As for the naysayers, this is a classic case of get better. We really shouldn't be reducing content the game has for the sake of adhering to people that struggle with any challenge. Its not a regular alliance raid, it requires more skill than average.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

May as well make that 4 years, this is the last time many people were excited for content that wasn't high-end. 2 Years if you want to count the initial Island Sanctuary

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It's been mentioned many times before. SE is in the business of making money. When people don't vote with their wallet, there is little incentive to change things up. People have been waiting for years, given numerous feedback, and nothing has changed, but it seems like people are still giving SE money. Once the bottom line really starts getting hit is when we'll see drastic changes.

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Originally Posted by remiff

Yes, The content would have been more successful

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but Bozja and Zadnor isn't hard. It's just zerg rushing fates and throwing bodies at the bosses until you win. The end engagements are the only thing that really takes two brain cells to rub together and that's just people understanding "Too many people going up or down or not keeping things evenly damaged when split = dead".

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

Chaotic is great and difficulty is also good and balanced. While it can be punishing, the mechanics are also fairly easy to grasp and there's alot of forgiveness with regards to the ressing.

As for the naysayers, this is a classic case of get better. We really shouldn't be reducing content the game has for the sake of adhering to people that struggle with any challenge. Its not a regular alliance raid, it requires more skill than average.

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You can get better but you can't get better teammates and 24 player content has a whole load of points of failure other than yourself. You either need to somehow put together a static for a one-off 24 player fight with no real rewards or deal with the inevitable skill issues of PF.

In 8 player content, if everyone makes a mistake 1/8 pulls then the fight becomes statistically unclearable. In 24 player content, that becomes 1/24 pulls. And the average PF enjoyer can barely make it through 1 pull without wiping the raid, never mind 24.

There's a very good reason that the wider MMO landscape has moved away from 40 player raiding in favour of <10 player raiding over the years.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

Chaotic is great and difficulty is also good and balanced. While it can be punishing, the mechanics are also fairly easy to grasp and there's alot of forgiveness with regards to the ressing.

As for the naysayers, this is a classic case of get better. We really shouldn't be reducing content the game has for the sake of adhering to people that struggle with any challenge. Its not a regular alliance raid, it requires more skill than average.

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There are definitely things to criticize in this raid and it is correct to criticize yet another higher difficulty content in a row instead of something else.
This has also nothing to do with getting better because you are dependent on 23 other people compared to the usual 7 and yes some mechanics ARE overly punishing like the towers in phase 2 wiping the whole raid and the back to back mechanics are visually cluttering.

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Originally Posted by Menriq

It's been mentioned many times before. SE is in the business of making money. When people don't vote with their wallet, there is little incentive to change things up. People have been waiting for years, given numerous feedback, and nothing has changed, but it seems like people are still giving SE money. Once the bottom line really starts getting hit is when we'll see drastic changes.

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The company's had multiple consecutive quarterly reports with a significant decrease in earnings. They either don't care that they're losing money or have their heads too far up their asses to try and fix it.

The only difficult parts of the Bozja/Zadnor content are the duels, and there are ways to cheese those that make them far easier than doing the mechanics as intended. And DRS which requires outside organization.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

This is because most peoples' problems are precisely just that, and they are problems that have near enough wholly been satiated with a substantive relic and exploratory, at this point they are almost synonymous with a lot of players.

Besides, most people in this thread talking about grinds have already discussed this very topic into a different stratosphere on other threads. At this point it's just vain effort that amounts to very little than screaming into the void. If this feedback were actually addressed and read by the developers then frankly it would've already been acknowledged that relic content (ideally exploratory) needs to come sooner in the patch cycle, like the first iteration of exploratory missions did in HW (Diadem), which is essentially the foundation that Eureka and Bozja were built on.

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Assuming they don't totally gut exploration zones, I suppose it'll be a silver-lining.