Nerf gil profit from submarine

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

I'm curious what all these sub farmers need 5 gil caps per month.

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"but but but I had to pay large vet bills for my cat!"

jokes aside, to answer your question, some people don't play the game like casual player. they get the most dopamine from watching numbers go up, and that's their xiv experience.
if one retainer is full, fill another. and another...

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

I'm curious what all these sub farmers need 5 gil caps per month. ---
also nice new buzzword unlocked, complainer = brings to light abuse in the system

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I am sure that though there are people who own whole ward or two, most people making gil from submarines are doing it by their single fleet of four from their only small FC of real people + alts. Which doesn't really sound like gil cap per month. Maybe in few years.

If the jewelry has always been in on the loot table, it seems safe to assume it is there by design.
I hope you never crafted cookies when that was "it" thing to make some gil.

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

Yes, by RNG/luck.

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im curious, those who prefer RNG/luck as money maker: have you tried it? succeeded with it? do you enjoy it?
i've known the kind of players who are your friends only so they can masterloot ex fight materials without splitting the revenue. you can tell them to to piss off forever, and they still drag you to farm newest ex when that thing comes. rinse and repeat.

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

People talk about community FCs being hurt by these changes like 95% of genuine community FC haven't been murdered by the...
Be real and just say you want to keep printing money. I wouldn't even judge you.

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Guess personally I am the kind of person who just wants to see the number get bigger? My submarine money from 2 FCs, on 2 servers, won't be added to circulation because I am saving.
This is not the only passive income method I have used/tested, but I admit it is the most convenient.

And poor community FCs... The only one I was ever part of was leader's clique using tens of sprouts as free stuff dispenser. I was there to build their submarines and giving up endless GC seals for mats. You think any of us were ever free to use those submarines, or anything around the FC house? You had to bribe officer to allowed to use gardening plot and before you onions were ready someone, likely another officer, had probably just plucked them off. Meanwhile the leader's clique kept the money from submarines and treated themselves + made more on the side by suspiciously RMT looking """FC raffles""".

In our free society, building a house was always a community project. The officers awarded contracts to craftsmen and collectors who wanted to participate. The profit was divided among all those involved.
So everyone had the opportunity to earn gil.

I am currently holding the fort for my free company as many members are on holiday or cannot afford to fund FF14 at the moment. This is to maintain our house. We don't want to undo our years of work on expanding our fleet of airships and submersibles.

We should not be bursting with envy. How about founding a company that builds houses, gives its members a share in these sustainable projects and distributes the profits fairly?

Building a fleet and unlocking workshop recipes is very labour intensive. It takes almost a whole year to achieve this when a free company starts from scratch.

The real problem behind this envy discussion is a different one: building crafters and collectors was a lengthy process up until 'Stormblood', requiring a lot of time and patience. I still remember the five-part macros we created together. The macros were created by us together and consist of five parts. Advice from our newcomers on how to approach things: optimal levelling up, collecting, macros, crafting by hand, equipment, over-socketing. Everything for the endgame!

Unfortunately, Square Enix has made the crafting and gathering professions too easy, so that everyone has mastered them by now. This has led to a sharp drop in market prices. Crafters and gatherers have become really difficult in the long run, as market laws now allow for less earnings than before.

Others still complain that everything on the market is still too expensive. So what is it?

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

I'm curious what all these sub farmers need 5 gil caps per month. This game distinctly doesn't require gil at any point. You can get 7k a touch for every levelling or mentor roulette if you do it as required role. It's fast easy money. wait... I know what they need 5 gil caps per month, it starts with r, then m and ends with t
also nice new buzzword unlocked, complainer = brings to light abuse in the system

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Peace and love, but you really need to chill out on the exaggerations and hysterics.

People who own entire wards aren't even making gil cap per month. You'd need hundreds of houses to hit 1B per month, which is not the case for THE MAJORITY OF SUB OWNERS. I think I honestly only know of 2 people (one being a YouTuber that openly flaunts it) that could even claim to hit 1B a month just through subs. Good luck finding someone who makes 5B a month through subs lol. They'd have to own almost an entire servers worth of FC houses to pull that off imo and dear god...the set up would take years.

Jsyk, the max 4 subs can make a day is around 1m total, not 1m each (500k if your luck is bad). You can do the rest of the math.

there is no economy in ffxiv, it just isn't a real factor unless you like to see number go up

So in this thread we have now established that complaining is now a new buzzword and somehow constitutes abuse despite it being a factual description of whats going on.

We have submarines being blamed for doing the thing they were designed for because people don't want to call out the real issue that is people being able to own multiple plots per account.

Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to Final Fantasy where the community will blame absolutely anything on anything they want.

Most money from RMT comes from those guys you see teleporting about on new accounts farming nodes and fates in low level areas. Ever been to East Shroud on a developing server? You can see mobs die from underground whilst they farm the fates 24/7.

If you really think using submarines make as much money as you think they do then just make one and see how long it takes you to make a profit. Until it reaches level 83 you can't even do the full trip and that requires almost 1 year of real time to unlock.

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Originally Posted by Asako

So in this thread we have now established that complaining is now a new buzzword and somehow constitutes abuse despite it being a factual description of whats going on.

We have submarines being blamed for doing the thing they were designed for because people don't want to call out the real issue that is people being able to own multiple plots per account.

Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to Final Fantasy where the community will blame absolutely anything on anything they want.

Most money from RMT comes from those guys you see teleporting about on new accounts farming nodes and fates in low level areas. Ever been to East Shroud on a developing server? You can see mobs die from underground whilst they farm the fates 24/7.

If you really think using submarines make as much money as you think they do then just make one and see how long it takes you to make a profit. Until it reaches level 83 you can't even do the full trip and that requires almost 1 year of real time to unlock.

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I mean if you want to go as far to say as 'designed'

The game didn't really intend for FCs to be a solo thing, hence the restriction on the requirement for a house being that the FC must have 4 members. This is one of those things where it is only possible due to a combination of half-hearted measures, and what the devs intended to solve, and how the solution actually played out are different things. This design extends to those that are doing solo submarines, if you really want to get down to 'what it was designed for'

If you want people to take your invitation, then sure... My submarines are actually running the Level 85 build at the moment, this is by design since I check daily rather than every 36-48hr, and you can say "It doesn't even do the full route all you like" - The full route is not even a necessity for the purpose. It is an advantage and a luxury to those that go for modified components, but is in no way shape for form a requirement.

As for how much I am making each month, I put this at around 8-11m, this is also without me checking on the daily. Across the span of a year this is upwards of 100M. This is only a conservative estimate. If I look at other peoples' charts who track this a lot more adequately, and arguably have a much larger sample size, then this goes between 12-17M, giving upwards of 200M p/y.

Looking at how long it took? It took between 4-6 months to get them to the needed rank of 85, I am sorry but if it took an entire year then there is something wrong. The collective amount of Gil spent actually upgrading the components and so forth, probably not much more than 1 1/2 month worth of submarine profit. Now we can daisy around and say "Oh it took 4-6 months of effort", or in your case "It took me an entire year" -- But the reality of that is the vast majority of it is just treating them like glorified retainers and sending them out, getting exp and unlocking routes. Building components unless it is the modified component I would go on to say probably took no more than a few hours per component. Only taking longer when factoring in unspoiled items like Darksteel, Spruce, etc.,

Personally, I don't really care for the housing side of it much -- I honestly think even if you nerfed them into oblivion, it wouldn't change a damn thing with the housing system., Namely because the problem actually existed far before the time that submarines even existed as a feature. I would also even go on to say that the number of people using them for RMT purposes is not as high as they alleged. Granted, I still do think it exists. I just maintain the stance I don't think the effort required justifies the end result, and nor do I think it is a good overall feature to give people what is essentially a limitless Gil printing machine. I don't very much care for witchhunting of the 'sublords' either -- They are only doing what a half-baked systems 'permits', and 'restricts' - It detracts away from engaging with other gameplay strands. Going back to my question, why would I craft, versus sending out glorified retainers that are bringing in 400K~ p/d? Unless I have an urgency behind this then there's absolutely no reason to whatsoever. You can compare them to dailies if you want, but the reality is they're ultimately nothing alike, given 1 is constant and sustained effort, versus slow sprints of effort for upgrading components, and then they are essentially just retainers once everything is set-and-done.

Probably one of the biggest arguments I've heard for it is that locking gameplay features behind a limited resource, e.g., housing just isn't equitable game design, and you aren't really going to be able to maintain the current structure if they were to be decoupled from housing or from FCs -- Seeing as they already nerfed Demimateria and levequest Gil.

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Originally Posted by Asako

We have submarines being blamed for doing the thing they were designed for because people don't want to call out the real issue that is people being able to own multiple plots per account.

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The real issue or the root cause is SE creating artificial scarcity with the limited ward housing system.

Every issue we've have had with ward housing over the years has been due to this artificial scarcity. Multi-house owners would not be a problem if there was a unlimited or near unlimited supply of housing if SE had implemented a fully instanced housing system right from the start.

RMT house selling is profitable because of the artificial scarcity. If there was no scarcity, there would be no RMT house selling.

Nearly every major MMO which has gone with the route of limited housing has faced similar problems like with FFXIV's ward housing. Here's an article which explains why limited housing in an MMO is a bad idea:
https://www.gamedeveloper.com/busine...housing-crisis

Players need to stop fighting amongst ourselves and ask that SE do better.

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Originally Posted by TwistedTea

The real issue or the root cause is SE creating artificial scarcity with the limited ward housing system.

Every issue we've have had with ward housing over the years has been due to this artificial scarcity. Multi-house owners would not be a problem if there was a unlimited or near unlimited supply of housing if SE had implemented a fully instanced housing system right from the start.

RMT house selling is profitable because of the artificial scarcity. If there was no scarcity, there would be no RMT house selling.

Nearly every major MMO which has gone with the route of limited housing has faced similar problems like with FFXIV's ward housing. Here's an article which explains why limited housing in an MMO is a bad idea:
https://www.gamedeveloper.com/busine...housing-crisis

Players need to stop fighting amongst ourselves and ask that SE do better.

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So the issue is the housing, as it always has been. It has nothing to do with submarines at all. We all know the housing system is terrible. I'm just calling out how stupid it is that people are blaming submarines instead of the root problem.

Nerf submarines salvage = fix housing