What lore do you ignore?

Gatekeeping people from enjoying any content creation where the name is used instead of Hydaelyn. So YouTube videos come to mind and forums where the topic titles doesn't indicate there's Endwalker spoilers in them.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

That entire comment of his guaranteed the odds that he's a troll. So let's just ignore him.

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I don't appreciate being called a troll for participating in a discussion. You don't have to be a troll to dislike something. Especially when I already list my in-game lore reason why it doesn't seem to work in-game.

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Originally Posted by JepMZ

Gatekeeping people from enjoying any content creation where the name is used instead of Hydaelyn. So YouTube videos come to mind and forums where the topic titles doesn't indicate there's Endwalker spoilers in them.



I don't appreciate being called a troll for participating in a discussion. You don't have to be a troll to dislike something. Especially when I already list my in-game lore reason why it doesn't seem to work in-game.

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Your in game reason doesn't read as an in game reason though. Most people who write lore videos or talk about Endwalker things tend to have a spoiler warning attached to them. I'm not sure why a person with the free trial would be watching or reading about subjects that most likely would be spoilers for them.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Your in game reason doesn't read as an in game reason though. Most people who write lore videos or talk about Endwalker things tend to have a spoiler warning attached to them. I'm not sure why a person with the free trial would be watching or reading about subjects that most likely would be spoilers for them.

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Yeah, as a lore-talker, I am going to say I go to lengths to avoid any clear spoilers in the thumbnail, title or any part of my videos before the spoiler warning itself. Oftentimes this is actually very easy, because there's a difference between 'showing things that spoil the story' and 'showing things that happen to be from later in the game'; if you don't have the context about something, it can often be hard to get enough of it to know there's a spoiler in the first place, and often there's beats that are so innocent and publicly known they aren't spoilers, like 'we go to Sharlayan'. Other times it can be very difficult, though; a great example is when I made a video comparing Emet-Selch and Fandaniel, where it was fairly easy to get a picture of Emet since he doesn't really have any spoilers in appearance, but it's actually damn near impossible for Fandaniel because he wears three faces, and every single one of them is some kind of spoiler.

I think it's right to be concerned about spoiling people who aren't done with the story or are on a free trial, but if I'm going to listen to anyone tell me what to do there, it's going to be someone who actually is or has been in that position. And JepMZ isn't that; they joined the forums in 2015, have seven jobs at level 90, and a lineup of minions that they couldn't have unless they were around for multiple years of events. So this smacks of a 'won't somebody please think of the children' style of straw-moralizing, attacking people for threatening or marginalizing a community that's basically completely fictionalized and abstract.

After all, if you're going to say we're wrong for talking about the story in a way that's 'not friendly to those on a free trial', how are we, as people who have finished the story, supposed to freely talk about it amongst ourselves?


EDIT: Incidentally, this is exactly what I was talking about with my question about 'why are people ignoring these'. Because there's perfectly legitimate reasons to ignore that being the standard and immediately-adopted name, that sort of language update doesn't happen overnight no matter how 'correct' it is... but that's not what they're arguing, they're mainly just using this thread to say 'Thing I Don't Like Is Bad'.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

...there's perfectly legitimate reasons to ignore that being the standard and immediately-adopted name, that sort of language update doesn't happen overnight no matter how 'correct' it is...

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Across a large population, probably not, but for the adoption of the term Etheirys we're really just talking about the Scions and a small group of Sharlayans who are "in the know" – and the Sharlayans quite likely were already familiar with the term from their previous correspondence with the Loporrits, where again it would have been immediately practical in their discussions to have distinct terms for Hydaelyn-the-entity and Etheirys-the-planet to avoid confusion between terms.

Plus Sharlayans are snooty scholars from a snooty pacifist nation. Of course they'd instantly embrace lost knowledge about the planet's true name.

And for some reason they are a super well respected society, I suppose due to western hemisphere aethereyte distribution. It absolutely cannot be all that previously mentioned snooty, pacifist isolationism.

But yeah, this is a setting where teleportation exists. World leaders get in the know quickly (and should really never not be in the know, since having teleporting messengers is almost as fast as email once the attunements have been done).

Dissemination of knowledge in this setting should basically make any major news proliferate at about the speed it does in the real world with the internet. I mean, I'm sure the aethernet is slightly slower, but not that much slower.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Dissemination of knowledge in this setting should basically make any major news proliferate at about the speed it does in the real world with the internet. I mean, I'm sure the aethernet is slightly slower, but not that much slower.

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On the other hand, the majority of people are probably oblivious to high-level Sharlayan research altogether – from memory we have specifically been told (probably by Koji) that most people don't even know to call the planet Hydaelyn in the first place, or possibly don't even know of Hydaelyn at all.

We're basically dealing with a small pool of high-end researchers using a terminology all their own, about concepts that the average person has no idea about. This isn't about the plausibility of getting a whole population to use new words for an old concept – they probably aren't even aware of the concept, because the entire thing is beyond their knowledge.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

On the other hand, the majority of people are probably oblivious to high-level Sharlayan research altogether – from memory we have specifically been told (probably by Koji) that most people don't even know to call the planet Hydaelyn in the first place, or possibly don't even know of Hydaelyn at all.

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I still find it very funny that Sharlayan has verifiable, evidenced proof of how the afterlife works, and are clearly just not telling anyone. Granted, that might be a good idea, I imagine suddenly going public with that stuff would cause some holy wars.

I think the barrier isn't actually with the travel of information, though, and more with just people being stubborn. People don't change their language on a dime even if they do know it's right to (believe me, I'm a trans woman, I've seen it first-hand). Realistically we should see either people having to stop themselves using 'Hydaelyn', apologizing for doing so, or a couple jerks making a big weird Thing out of them deliberately not using the newly-established name.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Realistically we should see either people having to stop themselves using 'Hydaelyn', apologizing for doing so, or a couple jerks making a big weird Thing out of them deliberately not using the newly-established name.

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Oh dear, new headcanon that Sevestre is leading his reactionary Sharlayan faction into trying to ban the term Etheirys -dressed up in language about it coming ultimately from a forbidden knowledge adjacent source- and it's the raging debate in the Forum eating up all valuable time.

This is kind of the inverse of "ignoring lore", I suppose, since it's the current English ADR team that's ignoring it (I can't speak for the others), but the topic reminded me...

I personally pretend that everyone is still pronouncing Seeker of the Sun names as they're described in the naming guides. As it is, you can conceivably hear different pronunciations of "Y'shtola" in a single scene lol. The way they pronounce "G'raha" is at least consistent, but wrong nonetheless.

Of course, inconsistent pronunciation is a problem in general, and a common one in any project where actors are reading the words from a script rather than hearing them in conversation, as most of the characters would in-world. That's on the director(s) for not setting them straight. And that inconsistency is really more annoying to me than any inaccuracies (one could argue the previously established rules are arbitrary -- and I don't necessarily disagree, but I appreciate rules for things like this), solely because it breaks my immersion. Especially in the case of something like "Y'shtola", where none of her CLOSE FRIENDS can settle on a single way to pronounce her name lmao.

Now, granted, I think most of us have probably heard people butcher "uncommon" names or words irl, even when they're repeated or otherwise clarified. I don't think it's impossible for there to be inconsistencies in that context. But in a highly produced work of fantasy like this (where there's an obligation to convey unfamiliar things clearly to the audience), I'd argue the standards are a little different, particularly in cases like this, when said mispronunciation isn't being discussed or acknowledged in the text.

But I realize this isn't a sticking point for most people. u_u

How are the names supposed to be pronounced?