The Devs aren't your personal friends and valid criticism isn't "harrassment"

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Oh. You're one of those Europeans. Yeah that's not going to be an on-topic, nor productive discussion.

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"Oh. Youre one of THOSE undesirables" Is basically what I heard from reading that statement lol.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Back in the day, when I bought a game it might be good or rubbish, and if it was rubbish I stopped playing it and took it back to EB Games for a refund.

Either way, I was playing the game that the developers had chosen to put out, not one for which fans had the ability to request changes. It's a completely different ecosystem.

I think I'm still in that mindset on the larger details of the game, though. It's the developers' creation and we choose to play it because we like what they're offering. They don't need to cater every single aspect of it to players' requests if it clashes with what they want their game to look like, even though it's certainly appreciated if they do take requests on board.

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I agree with most of what you said except the fact some of us have been very loyal and lost alot of money over the years. I can't refund my account and receive my money back but walk away silently. It doesn't leave a good impression if this is how you treat your core playerbase. We decided to stay for the long haul not for a walk in the park.

Frankly, the only thing the internet has taught me is that most humans are awful, selfish, nasty to each other and, if free of consequences, would have no problems murdering their own family to get what they want.

People don't care that the developers are human. They want what they want and it doesn't matter what anyone else wants because only their wants are important. It's been that way throughout all of human history.

Misanthropy is the only way.

Facetiousness aside, the devs are in a no win situation here. If they stay silent, they're told they're ignoring the community. If they promise things that they can't deliver right away, they risk turning into Cyberpunk 2077. No matter what course they take, it will lead to them being criticized. Unless they start listening to just this part of the community, which then risks turning into another WoW situation where 1% of the people dictate the gaming experience of the other 99% and is literally killing the game.

Any other job: The customer is always right, even when they are wrong!

SE: The customers don't know what they want, WE know what they want.

I mean, both are not very good takes but neither side's mentality will create a good product. Then again, if you can charge a monthly fee (plus tip ala the mogstation) then you can coast on your laurels for a while until the numbers dip too hard.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Neither of those words are abusive when used in proper context. Are they particularly harsh? The latter, yes. However, criticism tends to become harsher has time goes on and feedback is continuously ignored. Housing has been a known sore spot for half a decade now and we've seen once band-aid solution after another that never addresses the actual issues. Thus, players are becoming increasingly fed up.

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If I used those words when talking to my subordinates at work I would be severely talked to and possibly fired. As much as I THINK them.. there is never any constructive benefit to using them. They add nothing to the feedback. You can be "fed up" all you want, but once you start using loaded language like that, you aren't making your case any better, you're just coloring yourself as a jerk.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

In this specific circumstance, I feel "incompetence" is applicable. As is saying this "should never have happened." We're talking about a relatively basic coding error. If there were some random indie developer, I'd be far more forgiving. My expectations are significantly higher from a multi-billion dollar corporation. And as mentioned above, people's patience regarding housing is at an all time low due to yet another band-aid solution blowing up as the dev team stubbornly clings to a system that hasn't worked for years. What should be noted is criticism like this is usually isolated to a particular incident and not reflective of what people think of the dev team as a whole.

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Seems that both of your suppositions were wrong. While the testing probably should have caught that problem.. it wasn't as simple as "we included 0 as a result". So in this case calling people idiots, or incompetent was pretty irrelevant, and at worst it was a lack of testing variables being available.

Once again a case for expressing disappointment or asking for other things would be fine.. but making assumptions and insulting people was not.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

If I used those words when talking to my subordinates at work I would be severely talked to and possibly fired. As much as I THINK them.. there is never any constructive benefit to using them. They add nothing to the feedback. You can be "fed up" all you want, but once you start using loaded language like that, you aren't making your case any better, you're just coloring yourself as a jerk.

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Agreed. I can't picture any circumstance where you could call someone an idiot or incompetent to their face and not have it be abusive – and using it in what is intended as direct feedback to the developers is the virtual equivalent of doing that.

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Originally Posted by Arkanis_Linvail

"Im getting death threats" is often something used by people on social media as a way of getting people to stop attacking them....

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It's also used in social media (and beyond) when people are getting death threats.

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Originally Posted by Kohl

It's also used in social media (and beyond) when people are getting death threats.

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It's also used in social media (and beyond) to manipulate people to your side.

At this point who cares if someone is mean to you on the internet? If they go beyond that then that's stalking which is illegal and, more than likely, the authorities can help you with. Any social website worth it's salt has a block button and at the very least just ignore the jerk and keep scrolling, lol.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

If I used those words when talking to my subordinates at work I would be severely talked to and possibly fired. As much as I THINK them.. there is never any constructive benefit to using them. They add nothing to the feedback. You can be "fed up" all you want, but once you start using loaded language like that, you aren't making your case any better, you're just coloring yourself as a jerk.

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... these are not remotely the same circumstances. You're comparing a work colleague to being a customer. The reason for being reprimanded at work isn't necessarily for the remark itself but the fact you're gossiping with other employees and potentially creating a hostile work environment. None of us work for Square Enix nor will what we say have any bearing on them. YouTube has been routinely called incompetent for their horrendous mismanagement of copyright strikes and the open bias they show. Are we really going to argue tuning down our language because the multi-billion dollar corporation's feelings may be hurt? At the end of the day, Square Enix, like YouTube, is a company not our work colleague or friend. Attempting to compare the two is ridiculous.

Ultimately, this should have been better tested, especially considering how poorly they've handled housing since its inception. Credit where credit is due, Yoshida's response is fairly good.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

... these are not remotely the same circumstances. You're comparing a work colleague to being a customer.

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Being a customer does not make it not-abusive to direct those words at someone when you are delivering feedback to them.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Are we really going to argue tuning down our language because the multi-billion dollar corporations feelings may be hurt?

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When talking (or providing feedback) to them directly, yes.