Y'shtola is a Mary Sue.

I will have to disagree with you there in every way possible, a horrid character who's time ran out back in Stormblood who was brought back and given in your own terms a "Mary Sue" like status. But we will have to agree to disagree there but no way in hell is Zenos as a character on the same league or character development as Y'shtola

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Originally Posted by Garruss

I will have to disagree with you there in every way possible, a horrid character who's time ran out back in Stormblood who was brought back and given in your own terms a "Mary Sue" like status. But we will have to agree to disagree there but no way in hell is Zenos as a character on the same league or character development as Y'shtola

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I suppose the disagreement lies in the fact that I feel that the game portrayed Zenos's ideas and mindset wrong at every opportunity, whereas they didn't do this with Y'shtola. Zenos was portrayed as a villain and called out by multiple people for his way of thinking.

He was a one-note villain he slaughter people for his amusement and only wanted to fight if you ask me he was a sickening character and in some ways was designed for people to hate too. But he was a very dead-end character whose story should have ended in Stormblood and in my opinion, he should have stayed gone

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Originally Posted by Garruss

He was a one-note villain he slaughter people for his amusement and only wanted to fight if you ask me he was a sickening character and in some ways was designed for people to hate too. But he was a very dead-end character whose story should have ended in Stormblood and in my opinion, he should have stayed gone

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In the same vein, Y'shtola is a one-note character. She only seeks the pursuit of knowledge and that's it. She never wavers or shows vulnerability no matter the circumstances.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

I disagree. Zenos has been shown to have great abilities true, but he has been shown to be an emotionally and mentally disturbed being. He has a gaping void in his heart that he doesn't know how to fill, and mistakenly thinks he can fill it by fighting us. He suffers from eternal boredom. He didn't care about putting a world through suffering to get what he wanted. He was not portrayed as a mentally stable individual.



I agree with this, but the WoL represents the player. I find the WoL to be extremely boring as well, but I recognize the tricky balancing act being performed by having the WoL represent us. Go too far from neutral and you risk upsetting players. Heck, that even happened this expansion when the player didn't get the option to disagree with certain choices other characters made...

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There is a time and a place for every trope and as the player character the wol is that place for a mary sue character. I dont find the wol boring because your imagination is supposed to fill in the gaps. Although I do appreciate the increasingly sassy dialogue options.

Zenos is an incredibly bland character. He's evil because he's always been evil, he quite literally just hunts people for sport. He would still be pure evil in far darker stories. I get why people dont like him as villian, i personally did enjoy his character trope this time. He had exactly one moment of character development and it was basically spelled out for him by alisaie.

Also, if being bedridden for a while amounts to real consequences, then her missing from most of stormblood because of zenos almost cutting her in half is consequences. Her being lost and drifting through the aetherial sea is consequences she experienced.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

In the same vein, Y'shtola is a one-note character. She only seeks the pursuit of knowledge and that's it. She never wavers or shows vulnerability no matter the circumstances.

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Have we played the same game? She is plenty flustered in shadowbringers and endwalker. She is deeply worried about the wol's health and definitely shows a lot of insecurity and hesitation over it for someone who has a very reserved upbringing.

A lot of that insecurity and hesitation is also rooted in her not being able to see like other people. She has to rely on her aether sight and it has mislead her specifically in crucial situations.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Zenos is an incredibly bland character. He's evil because he's always been evil, he quite literally just hunts people for sport. He would still be pure evil in far darker stories. I get why people dont like him as villian, i personally did enjoy his character trope this time. He had exactly one moment of character development and it was basically spelled out for him by alisaie.

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It could have been anything. He sought fulfillment that would fill the void in his heart. He mistakenly thought a challenge would do this. If videogames were a thing and someone challenged him in videogames, he would have pursued them with the same fervor. It's childish in a way really, but he was never allowed an emotionally mature upbringing so that makes sense. He doesn't know what friendship or love is at all. But this isn't about Zenos.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Also, if being bedridden for a while amounts to real consequences, then her missing from most of stormblood because of zenos almost cutting her in half is consequences. Her being lost and drifting through the aetherial sea is consequences she experienced.



Have we played the same game? She is plenty flustered in shadowbringers and endwalker. She is deeply worried about the wol's health and definitely shows a lot of insecurity and hesitation over it for someone who has a very reserved upbringing.

A lot of that insecurity and hesitation is also rooted in her not being able to see like other people. She has to rely on her aether sight and it has mislead her specifically in crucial situations.

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I guess we must have. She never seemed all that flustered to me.

This topic is pretty cool! Shadowbringers + Endwalker spoilers
Yshtola in essence is the weakest of the Scions, sitting right next to Urianger. Both of these characters are scholars and you only really see them in the picture when there's something afoot that's not just an enemy to run at and fight.

There are many times in the story where Y'shtola is normally found in the sidelines, mutually contemplating about something or carrying out a task. I agree she's a Mary Sue in the sense where she feels more like an unkillable city NPC. But that's what Y'shtola and Urianger are. They're just scholars whose only effort in the story is the progression of the unknown, lack of better terms. They both favor the pen over the sword, so they avoid conflict firsthand. Y'shtola is never found alone unlike Urianger, she always has someone around in case she's in danger. And when she is alone, she gets kidnapped by Bowse-... Elidibus and used as bait for Mari-... the Warrior of Light, wow.

Aside from Arenvald and Raubahn losing apendages, Y'shtola is the most crippled out of the Scions. She literally cannot see, aside from aether

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

Still waiting to see any consequences from that.

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Then you must not be paying attention to Y'shtola as a character. In the "Into the Wood" cutscene of Shadowbringers, each scion gets shot at by arrows but only Thancred has a semblance of countering. Y'shtola, Ryne, and Urianger all cower as to decrease their silhoutte size. Luckily no one is hit :). And Y'shtola is visibly fighting for her life in defense against the melee attacks.

The biggest consequence is that she could not see creatures of dynamis. At the end of Endwalker:Vanaspati - Skies Aflame cutscene #2, she states:
"Y'shtola: The beast was there...and now it is no more, yes?
Y'shtola: I saw nothing. Not the blasphemy that perished here, nor the other men-turned-beasts. And because of this, I now see all too well..."

What does this mean? If there was a blasphemy right behind her, she'd be dead. What happens throughout the ENTIRE story? Y'shtola is always surrounded by the scions. She's very vulnerable. She's not a Mary Sue, she's just smart and very protected.

Venat is a Mary Sue. Y'shtola is everyone's waifu. That's why Y'shtola gets every outfit on the cash shop and has a $1000 doll you can buy. And a nice figure you can buy right now. And probably won't die. Ever.

The only character that isn't mary sue is Gaius. Gaius is the best.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

In the same vein, Y'shtola is a one-note character. She only seeks the pursuit of knowledge and that's it. She never wavers or shows vulnerability no matter the circumstances.

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Seriously, stop using words you don't understand. At least make an attempt to learn the definitions first. There's a difference between over the top stache twirling "buhahaha fightfightBLOOD" and a character like Y'shtola, who you see react differently in various situations.

If you want to break down any character to their most dominant trait, be my guest. But please don't then do it using established vocabulary in a wrong way.

"One note" does not mean what you think it does.