Open plea to the Devs

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

1. Creating FCs, leveling them up to 6, and bot clicking their way into recently demo'd homes. Then resell them for 10x to 70x the placard cost depending on location and server. Wait 24 hours, start a new FC, level it to 6 and rinse/repeat.

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The other issue with this is it allows for a way to involve RMT as the purchase transaction is separate from the property transfer.

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

2. Ward scanning via bot to snap up any medium or large homes that demo, usually before others are even aware of it. Then sell the relocation into that plot. (Anywhere from 100 million to a billion gil depending on size and location of the lot and which server it's being sold on.) This second one also requires a small plot to be open somewhere for them to relocate into when releasing the plot they are selling to the buyer.

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I mean, all you need is a bot that's smart enough to fire off keyboard/mouse clicks, wait for the incoming network packets, rinse and repeat. Throw in enough other things to simulate the keys strokes to navigate to the menus and you don't actually need ingame data for this. Only thing you need ingame data for is targeting the main aetheryte in the cities so you can get access to the neighborhood information.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

The other issue with this is it allows for a way to involve RMT as the purchase transaction is separate from the property transfer.

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Yes, that is also an issue. Post about wanting to buy an FC house on Discord and at least one RMTer will contact you. The problem is only growing as housing availability gets tighter. They get banned, but they just come back on new accounts and it's rinse/repeat.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

I mean, all you need is a bot that's smart enough to fire off keyboard/mouse clicks, wait for the incoming network packets, rinse and repeat. Throw in enough other things to simulate the keys strokes to navigate to the menus and you don't actually need ingame data for this. Only thing you need ingame data for is targeting the main aetheryte in the cities so you can get access to the neighborhood information.

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There's one already out there that's quite popular. I can't name it here, but it's what the resale botters are using, as well as ordinary players sick of the clicking game.

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

It defeats the spirit of what housing was intended to be, that's probably why. It's not against the ToS to sell a home or the relocation into a plot, but they weren't intending for it to be like this.

With the timer you can't do it with personal houses anymore. Resellers have adapted in two ways.

1. Creating FCs, leveling them up to 6, and bot clicking their way into recently demo'd homes. Then resell them for 10x to 70x the placard cost depending on location and server. Wait 24 hours, start a new FC, level it to 6 and rinse/repeat.

2. Ward scanning via bot to snap up any medium or large homes that demo, usually before others are even aware of it. Then sell the relocation into that plot. (Anywhere from 100 million to a billion gil depending on size and location of the lot and which server it's being sold on.) This second one also requires a small plot to be open somewhere for them to relocate into when releasing the plot they are selling to the buyer.

And this is how the timer hasn't done much to stop the housing resale market. I don't think it's even slowed it down.

Be interesting to see if the lotto affects them, too. SE mention revisions to relocation, but no idea what those will be.

And honestly, unless they also look into how FC master is handed over to someone, the resale market will sail on. The only thing that will put a serious dent in their markets is to release enough housing that you won't feel pressured to buy from them anymore.

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Yeah I understand that, naively I think we might not even needed have a timer situation:
- if you were just "forced" to sell your deed, so eliminating the relocation in one go.
- You could still just buy a new plot in new ward but if you wanted a house you had to sell it (and it would default to a market value, like how wow token value is calculated on their AH).
- Demo houses deeb would automatically either go back on MB by the game or let back to the market so you just could buy the plot like in a new ward
But we're too far gone for that now.

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

And this is how the timer hasn't done much to stop the housing resale market. I don't think it's even slowed it down.

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It's definitely slowed it down. Before they could buy up anything as it became available then sell to anyone who wanted it. Now there are some obstacles in the way.

-They have to be able to obtain a house with their mule before they can snap up whatever mediums/larges become available. That means fighting against the timer and other players trying to purchase the same plot.

-They can only sell to new buyers willing to forego membership in a legit FC or who are willing to disband their current FC to rejoin the one that owns the house (if purchasing for a FC).

-They can only sell to relocators who are willing to pay a premium for the specific plot the flipper possesses. Not going to be a problem if the flipper is trying to sell a medium or large they lucked out on getting. Definitely would be a problem for the majority of smalls.

It is also never a problem that will go away as long as plots remain limited in quantity. It doesn't matter what obstacles SE tries to put in the way, players will always find a way to turn the situation to their advantage. That is why an improved purely instanced housing system is needed, and I'm not referring to simply adding options to apartment sizes. Balmung is at the point that players can start flipping apartments just as they have been flipping plots because SE will not implement a system the dynamically expands supply as the available supply gets consumed. Players who have apartments they aren't using can offer to relinquish them for a fee so someone desperate even to get an apartment will have one to buy.

SE has got to pull their head out of the sand when it comes to the mess they've made with the system. A new housing district and adding a lottery is not going to fix things.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." ---Albert Einstein.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

It's definitely slowed it down. Before they could buy up anything as it became available then sell to anyone who wanted it. Now there are some obstacles in the way.

-They have to be able to obtain a house with their mule before they can snap up whatever mediums/larges become available. That means fighting against the timer and other players trying to purchase the same plot.

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Incorrect. They have 7 to 8 FC houses they use to ward scan/relocate bot with. When they grab a large/medium demo, they move the ward bot to another FC to repeat the process. When they have a buyer for the large or medium plot, they sell it strictly as a relocation. And then relocate into an open small plot where the timer is still ongoing. Rinse/repeat.

It's a never ending cycle so long as there are people out there desperate to upgrade to a larger plot.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

-They can only sell to new buyers willing to forego membership in a legit FC or who are willing to disband their current FC to rejoin the one that owns the house (if purchasing for a FC).

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And there are a lot of people willing to do this, as evidenced on the housing discords. People are even advised to get an FC house this way, just wait to find a seller and form your FC around that.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

-They can only sell to relocators who are willing to pay a premium for the specific plot the flipper possesses. Not going to be a problem if the flipper is trying to sell a medium or large they lucked out on getting. Definitely would be a problem for the majority of smalls.

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Small relocations aren't really a thing unless they are in premium plots, beachfronts, etc. But FCs with small houses are definitely a thing. This is how resellers have adapted. Keeping track of a few of the more busy ones, in just the last 30 days, they've managed to snag and flip 42 FCs with houses. (This is across all Crystal Data Center servers, mind.) They sell them for anywhere from 60 to 210 million depending on the plot and server. This isn't anecdotal evidence here. I've watched it happen in real time, keeping track of it. And I'm sure 42 isn't anywhere near the actual amount being flipped in the last 30 days. Just the ones I've picked up on.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

It is also never a problem that will go away as long as plots remain limited in quantity. It doesn't matter what obstacles SE tries to put in the way, players will always find a way to turn the situation to their advantage. That is why an improved purely instanced housing system is needed, and I'm not referring to simply adding options to apartment sizes. Balmung is at the point that players can start flipping apartments just as they have been flipping plots because SE will not implement a system the dynamically expands supply as the available supply gets consumed. Players who have apartments they aren't using can offer to relinquish them for a fee so someone desperate even to get an apartment will have one to buy.

SE has got to pull their head out of the sand when it comes to the mess they've made with the system. A new housing district and adding a lottery is not going to fix things.

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On this we can agree.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

OP there are a number of things you can do to make your life easier it doesn't need to be a constant grind, just a long term one.
- Don't camp for hours on end, camping 1h every day for 10 days and camping 10h one time doesn't change things much. In fact, the more people you compete against the better the first option.
- Only go for smalls in the golblet, you highly reduce the risk of relocations
- Don't camp houses that have been up less than 12h. Feel free to make that 14,16 etc.. Put the threshold where you want. Yes plots could open before that but you'll increase your odds of getting a house when you camp by only camping these plots.
- Make note of demolition timers when devs disable/re-enable them. Don't forget to check 45 days later. Those are windows you want to aim for.
- Ward/Zone additions. Increase you odds by practicing running to your plot (on multiple classes with movement enhancement features). If you manage to log early run to your desired plot. If that's taken make sure you have a backup ready! If you get connection issues, or log in a little late (10-15mn in) make sure you have a "worse-case scenario" plot that you think nobody would want right away (some small in goblets). Alternatively, although I don't recommend this since it's a pain for other players, if you have the gill you could straight up buy your "worst-case scenario" plot and then relocate if you find something better.

The above can reduce the opportunities you get since you're limiting yourself to specific plots. But they will also greatly reduce the total amount of time you spend in districts clicking placards.

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The fact that all this is necessary to even have a CHANCE at getting a housing plot just highlights how broken the housing system is.

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Originally Posted by Darthgummibear

The fact that all this is necessary to even have a CHANCE at getting a housing plot just highlights how broken the housing system is.

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First of all, get off Balmung if the housing is the thing you want to do.
That server has problem of being over-populated and there is no simple way for new players to get a housing plot.

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Originally Posted by Darthgummibear

The fact that all this is necessary to even have a CHANCE at getting a housing plot just highlights how broken the housing system is.

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It is... that's why we're hoping for improvements come 6.1 with the Ishgardian housing.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

First of all, get off Balmung if the housing is the thing you want to do.
That server has problem of being over-populated and there is no simple way for new players to get a housing plot.

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Newsflash - all Aether worlds have been moved to Congested status while all Crystal worlds, including Balmung, are Preferred. Sounds like Balmung isn't the world with the overpopulation problem anymore.

Moving off Balmung isn't going to improve someone's chances of getting a house when all NA worlds are having the same problem.