The trust system is great, I hope it gets expanded

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Originally Posted by Darkmoonrise

(3) players who carry their weight (normal average people, I'm in this group) From here you can down ex and savage.

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I'll just disagree here.

You can make a mistake or two while doing your job properly and still do EX. This isn't good enough for savage.

Savage is the point where you can't make deadly mistakes anymore, and you need to carry your weight.

EX is the point where you can make a very few mistakes, and you need to carry your weight.

I can do ex, but I can't do savage. I'd like to fix that, so In a way I'm still #2...

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Originally Posted by Daibunnie

Nah, still within context.



If someone don't like challenging group content and the gear the content rewards them isn't necessary, why exactly do they need those rewards?

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This argument kind of went out the window the moment SE decided dyeable AF armor was going to be locked behind an EX trial. It wasn't even better than other gear at the time. You're doing the trial just for the ability to dye gear.

They also do it for raid gear too.

Honestly, trusts are fun and I hope they expand them to at least include MSQ trials but I would be fine if they included them in harder content too. Playing with other players will always be faster, but sometimes I do prefer to sit down and not play with other players for various reasons(whether I'm expecting a phone call and don't want to afk in the middle of a dungeon, not feeling sociable, whatever.) There's also the story aspect. It felt cool to go through each dungeon the first time with the characters who were supposed to be right there with me.

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Originally Posted by Darkmoonrise

but I don't see the relation of this with the root problem.

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In the pvp example I gave it should be obvious, person deludes themselves that their way of playing is acceptable even if it literally is at the expense of others and also often believes they are deserving of their victories, now if that person was capable of admitting that all these victories are false, hollow, meaningless that would also mean they cannot delude themselves they are a good player, skilled, capable and cant boost their self worth that way, thus instead they choose to say its is just "fun" and not bother analyzing further because that allows the person to boost their self worth which is their true goal, just like the person to defends something as unhealthy as bragging rights, again words are meaningless, actions are what reveal a person's true goals.

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Originally Posted by Darkmoonrise

You do not fight extremism with extremism. This only leads to more extremism.

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And what I say is absolutely not extreme, what I am saying is bragging rights are unhealthy and attract insecure people and that shouldnt happen, elitists delude themselves by inflating their achievements and calling others incapable, bad, low skilled etc to inflate their self worth further while keep inventing imaginary bad players to justify their position and that is yet another thing that shouldnt happen, I also say that people should have access to content and rewards they like and shouldnt be forced to do something they dont because the reward is locked behind it therefore there should be multiple ways to get said rewards that work for both casual and hardcore players.

If that is seen as extreme then I would say the problem is you.

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Originally Posted by Darkmoonrise

Accessibility is not a problem. Same reward for more accessible content is. Or harassing people because they don't want or are not able to beat none accessible content is.

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Same thing, the fact that letting people access rewards they like scared elitists and makes them foam at anyone suggesting that is my proof as to how unhealthy they are because their ego is so attached to digital pixels they cant handle someone else getting the same digital pixels because they like them, not because of bragging rights"

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Originally Posted by Darkmoonrise

This is exactly why there is exclusive loot, like mounts, that only drop for this very type of content, to brag about it
bragging about being able to beat hard content is totally ok.

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Ah yes such a good and healthy thing, "bragging rights", I certainly have said that sometimes earlier in this forum but if someone is truly healthy and knows they are decent and a good player they dont need the game to confirm it via achievements and exclusive loot, that exists only for the insecure and unhealthy(And sadly the gaming sphere has so many of both) to get slowly addicted to the feeling that they """"achieved""" something hence why i keep saying it is their self worth depending on the game that is turning them toxic because no healthy person ever puts their self worth on something as basic as a video game. So no, anyone who unironically supports the idea of exclusive rewards and bragging rights is not healthy and both of those should have been removed ages ago, but hey, manipulative psychological marketing aka as marketing is still legal so the species is still pretty deep in the dark ages so I cant expect much.

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Originally Posted by Darkmoonrise

But... they are great and skilled to beat hard content

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How are they skilled exactly? You chose to focus completely on the social aspect of finding groups and statics as well as things you have no control over such as the performance of others and you ignored the part of individual performance which is the same in a solo trust so now you cant just run all the way back and pretend individual skill is relevant.
You either admit that individual skill is what matters thus beating said challenge in a trust makes you equally skilled and deserving of equal prestige(In the eyes of elitists at least, not healthy people) or you argue that the real skill is the social aspects and things outside of your control such as the performance of others which cant be found in a solo trust scenario.

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Originally Posted by Darkmoonrise

not everybody can do it

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And that is one of the many lies elitists tell themselves to inflate their achievement, they unironically say something as extremely basic as SCRIPTED, PREDICTABLE, TELEGRAPHED content with a ton of giant assistant signs is something that "not everyone can do" while the truth is even if you put a clueless kid in such a """"challenge"""" they will beat it after a while, they only people that you could say cant do it would be people with extreme levels of disability, so that argument is a pure delusion that only exists to inflate the elitist achievement, see my signature for that.

Unless you want to go all the way back and argue that this isnt about individual skill rather it is about being social and finding people and things completely out of your control like other people's mistakes or performance which in that case many people either dont have the time or simply dont want to have to deal with the drama that is people or having to jump from guild to guild because they either died, stopped caring about X or are simply toxic, anyone who has done that in the past knows how tiring this process can be yet elitists seem to love the idea of forcing people through it because it is the only way to get the rewards they want, because forcing people to do something they dont like in order to get something they like is such a great and healthy mentality.

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Originally Posted by Darkmoonrise

(0) players who want all the loot but don't want to put effort in it.

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Again a delusion created by elitists I ve seen countless times, not a single person who demands accessibility ever asks for "send me this reward in the mail", they ask for a way, content, grind that would let them get the reward.

The real source of this belief is the idea that your high end group content is so superior and elite that no other way of getting that reward is "worthy" in the eyes of the elite that have already inflated their achievements to the heavens to help with their self esteem issues, again unhealthy and emotional based argument, when one's self worth depends on something being "rare" of course they dont want that something to be available to all, if they were healthy they had 0 issues with it.

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Originally Posted by Darkmoonrise

And you will suffer about it and will join either (0) or (5)

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My, my because of course a person like me couldnt be a 4, I clearly either have to be an extremely bad player demanding free rewards or somekind of elitist, and the fact that you think you are capable of speaking about my future when you clearly fail to grasp many things I point out is a little ironic.


And looks like the person who attempted to turn what I say against me had their post deleted but I will say this, simply look at what I am standing for, and what elitists are standing for.
In WoW because I wanted decent gear(That means mythic) so I was forced to rush and hurry and pug 14-15s on multiple characters as well as fully clear heroic at the minimum since the bfa mythic guild died in the expansion made for absolute tryhards, so i had what you see as "elite" status, my EU account also had the legion mage tower appearances I liked, yet I kept supporting for everyone to have a path for mythic gear through casual and solo means as well as bringing back mage tower appearances for people who werent there and couldnt get them, and just as it is in every game this causes extreme pain to elitists whose ego depends on those special unique rewards that the casual "plebs" cant have, I was completely fine with sharing my """elite rewards""" with the casual players because my ego was not based on said rewards, I dont need rewards to tell me I am good, I want rewards because they look nice or fit me and in terms of gear, because I like gear progression.

So here I am pushing for people to be able to have access to both content and rewards, not because of something as insecure and unhealthy as "bragging rights" but because they merely like that thing, be it content or reward or even concepts such as gear progression.

Now on the other hard elitists are there to keep the barriers, to keep forcing people to do thing they dont like, to withhold cool rewards from others for the sake of their fragile self esteem, to keep pushing people down and calling them incapable, bad, cant improve etc to inflate their own sense of achievement, and love bragging rights(From beating a video game designed from the ground up to be won).

If you feel the latter are on the right, your choice, I ve said what needs to be said.

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Originally Posted by Arzalis

This argument kind of went out the window the moment SE decided dyeable AF armor was going to be locked behind an EX trial. It wasn't even better than other gear at the time. You're doing the trial just for the ability to dye gear.

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What argument are you even talking about? Dyeable af gear isn't required nor needed for normal content progression. If you want the rewards from harder content, regardless of it being for BiS or just glamour, earn it.

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Originally Posted by Daibunnie

What argument are you even talking about? Dyeable af gear isn't required nor needed for normal content progression. If you want the rewards from harder content, regardless of it being for BiS or just glamour, earn it.

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i think the memoria misera.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

I'll just disagree here.

You can make a mistake or two while doing your job properly and still do EX. This isn't good enough for savage.

Savage is the point where you can't make deadly mistakes anymore, and you need to carry your weight.

EX is the point where you can make a very few mistakes, and you need to carry your weight.

I can do ex, but I can't do savage. I'd like to fix that, so In a way I'm still #2...

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You can die in savage either.
It just depends when.

If its during a big downtime it doesn't matter. It's only when a mechanic requires 8 people that you have to be alive or it can snowball into a wipe.
But you still can make mistake, the windows is just more tight.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

But you still can make mistake, the windows is just more tight.

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This, dont let people who hype up and inflate high end group content as somekind of ultra l33t impossibly hard task that requires perfection fool you, it is merely just harder than the previous difficulty and still has a decent room for error, the room for error simply gets reduced the higher you go but it is still there and that even includes ultimate, so if you feel like trying you absolutely can, it is not beyond you, tis a video game after all

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Originally Posted by Ralph2449

the room for error simply gets reduced the higher you go but it is still there and that even includes ultimate, so if you feel like trying you absolutely can, it is not beyond you, tis a video game after all

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Hahaha I'll never forget watching some of the worlds first TEA clears and seeing DoTs falling off and the occasional death and people still clearing it.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

You can die in savage either.

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And you can not have a single death and still die to enrage. It all boils down to one thing, is your group pushing more than the minimum DPS or not? I've had a pug group of all 530 for E12s door boss and we died to friggen 2% enrage despite having 0 deaths. How to fix something like this? disband or replace the baddies. Simple as that. ilvl can't fix bad players.

The system was good at the start of shadowbringers. It’s main benefits were allowing you to learn, guaranteeing loot drops and allowing you to skip queues/progress.

Once you finish shadowbringers it becomes far less useful. The levelling up of characters should probably have happened as you were going through them the first time. As it is it’s just another grind that is added, at a point where it’s not really needed anymore and they effectively remove your ability to do the dungeons unless you do said grind.