Savage is way to hard nerf it please!

For anybody who thinks current Savage is too hard...you poor poor summer children. You know not of the horrors of Gordias. That tier almost destroyed the raiding community.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Case in point, the ONLY reason I'm even doing this is for dye applicable eden gear. I'd rather be doing just about anything else like Ishgard restoration or even just working on buying a house. I've literally never done savage content until this patch cycle.

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I would personally wait until they unlock the restrictions then go farm it at that point if you're just after glamour. They're strict with the locking of chests at the beginning because they don't want to give max ilvl gear at a rapid pace. They eventually remove them where it won't matter who is in your group and the gear levels will make it easier to farm glamour. You'll just end up super frustrated trying to clear the entire thing if pugging Fulmination is driving you up the wall. Furor on the other hand just has backloaded mechanics. The first 3/4 of the fight is easy, mostly because they are showing you how each mechanic works at the beginning. The difficulty drastically increases at the end.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

The issue the OP is dealing with is the time they have to play the game and the condition of the players at that hour. Savage fights are best done when one is rested and in good condition: they do not work well for a worn out group of working class individuals in a late evening because a single mess up can break an entire fight. It's not until gear pushes past the hypothetical minimum level that people bypass the limitations from this. I've seen more than a fair share of people who have had 5+ nights of solid practice screw up over and over because of trying to do this on less than 6 hours of sleep and a 16 oz coffee.

The real crux of the issue is the content is branching outside of it's target audience due to the glamour. People want the dye applicable version of the eden armor and the weapon model to match. The only way to get that is to do the savage runs.

If the savage runs offered something more like a unique item for each area cleared, that would help separate the two crowds out. However, what the devs and company are scared of is that they wasted hours and hours of time building content to keep people in the game, only to have it fail to achieve the objective because it lacks any incentives. Case in point, the ONLY reason I'm even doing this is for dye applicable eden gear. I'd rather be doing just about anything else like Ishgard restoration or even just working on buying a house. I've literally never done savage content until this patch cycle.

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I can totally get behind your argument regarding dyeable equipment being only obtainable through Savage. I actually do think it's a pretty big design flaw, since many casual players want to be able to use them in glamours, and they can't.
I myself adore the Eden's Gate healer armor, but just when i was about to get into savage mode, 5.2 dropped and people pretty much stopped grinding for the old stuff.

I'm a bit of both worlds : I do want the glamour, but that's not why i do Savage. I only do Savage for the challenge and for better gear.
Hence, i really don't think that locking dyeable versions of the raid equipment behind Savage was a good decision.
Obviously some people will disagree with this, but in my opinion, clearing Savage itself and getting higher iLvl gear is already enough of a reward for hardcore players. And then maybe add a bit of an aura on the raid weapon so that they can parade in town with it and show to everyone what they achieved.

Buuuuuut ... then, isn't this more of a reward issue, rather than a difficulty issue ?

However, when people have to Pug due to no time for a static and spend 5hours a day in Pf when they have free time in an attempt to get 1 re clear and parties disband after another because people can’t do mechs, that is a problem. I shouldn’t have to be told well then savage isn’t for you if I know the mechs, just because I can’t do a static doesn’t mean I should have to waste my time and never prog in the triad because I can’t get re-clears.

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Originally Posted by stlcardsfan69

However, when people have to Pug due to no time for a static and spend 5hours a day in Pf when they have free time in an attempt to get 1 re clear and parties disband after another because people can’t do mechs, that is a problem. I shouldn’t have to be told well then savage isn’t for you if I know the mechs, just because I can’t do a static doesn’t mean I should have to waste my time and never prog in the triad because I can’t get re-clears.

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I don't really understand this weird idea that people who have less time have to pug instead of getting a static. Pugging actually takes way more time, because of all the waiting around to fill up, constant disbanding and progression/kills taking longer due to having no consistency.

A static does not mean you need to raid 4 hours every day or something - depending on the static you could raid a lot or very little, it's only about playing with the same group of people every time.
Having unstable work/life schedule might seem like an issue, but you can actually have a static that sets raid days/hours on a week-to-week basis, depending on when is everyone available - I've actually done Sigmascape like this and while it's not as comfy as a proper, fixed schedule, it can certainly work and is miles better than pugging. You still get the benefits of not having to waste time waiting in PF, know you can depend on the people you raid with and can use consistent strats that you all agreed on and know well.

If you can't find a static that fits your preferences - make one. Ask your FC members, your friends, look around on recruitment discords like ERC etc. You can even try setting something up with people you've met in PF, if you get lucky once in a while and find some decent players.
You just need to understand that a static like this might not have top performance(although tbh most statics don't anyways) - but it will still be better than pf, because of no waiting and consistency, as well as ability to work through any issues together.

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Originally Posted by Satarn

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This. So much.
People seem to think a static has to raid 3-4 times a week for 3h minimum when in fact there are statics who raid only 1-2 times per week with the days set on week-to-week basis. There are statics for people who work shifts, late, early etc. Plenty of statics raid for 2hours, they start a little later so everyone get eat, rest a bit etc. and stop a little sooner so everyone gets enough sleep/ has some free time before bed.
Everyone in my static has a full time job, some of them working in shifts, some self-employed with sometimes VERY tight and busy schedules.

Pugging can be fun in its own way and sometimes you get lucky and have some fantastic reclear parties who are in and out within an hour but other times you have bad luck and people wipe to the easiest mechanics. Best you can do is FL the people who played well and stick with them. And you know what? Suddenly you have a static without a fixed schedule.
It's not like you're the only person on this world to have this problem. Savage isn't too hard, many people pug it just fine and if you can't, then take the initiative and work around it.

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Originally Posted by Kraniel

Buuuuuut ... then, isn't this more of a reward issue, rather than a difficulty issue ?

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Got me haha. Thats how this started for me anyway. It is also somewhat to able to experience al the cutscense in a game without having to complete the savage mode. I felt like higher Ilvl on your gear should be enough reward for HC players

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Originally Posted by Cirque-it

Simple solution.

Make an extra mode. An "Savage-practice" mode for lack of better term.
This mode should be the exact same as the savage varient EXCEPT for the fact the machanics are FAR more forgiving. insta kills reducing your health to 50%

This mode should hand NO LOOT at the end (since you have not yet earned it)
But if you complete the battle correctly, you get a special achievement. The you can make create a party finder with a new mode "Duty-practice complete". Here you can look for other players whom have all practiced, done the work, know the mechanics but don't yet have the kill

I believe this mode would be a crucial middle step. as right now casual players that want to experience the savage content AND progress are completely lost. Not everyone has time to commit to a static group. people have full-time jobs. Some of us have multiple full-time jobs!! That should not forbid us from experience the ultimate encounters

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Yes! Thank you! We really need more players to participate and feel confident with the content.

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Originally Posted by Cirque-it

Simple solution.

Make an extra mode. An "Savage-practice" mode for lack of better term.
This mode should be the exact same as the savage varient EXCEPT for the fact the machanics are FAR more forgiving. insta kills reducing your health to 50%

This mode should hand NO LOOT at the end (since you have not yet earned it)
But if you complete the battle correctly, you get a special achievement. The you can make create a party finder with a new mode "Duty-practice complete". Here you can look for other players whom have all practiced, done the work, know the mechanics but don't yet have the kill

I believe this mode would be a crucial middle step. as right now casual players that want to experience the savage content AND progress are completely lost. Not everyone has time to commit to a static group. people have full-time jobs. Some of us have multiple full-time jobs!! That should not forbid us from experience the ultimate encounters

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Thats called normal mode.

You can have a full time job and clear savage and ultimate. In fact, plenty of people do. You do not need to dedicate a long time to a static. Plenty of statics only dedicate 3 hours or less a week. You simply need to work to find one or make one that fits your schedule. Or just pug.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

Thats called normal mode.

You can have a full time job and clear savage and ultimate. In fact, plenty of people do. You do not need to dedicate a long time to a static. Plenty of statics only dedicate 3 hours or less a week. You simply need to work to find one or make one that fits your schedule. Or just pug.

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Training with the different mechanics, normal mode can't provide that.