SCH needs help

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volkaj

Except 3 Lilies is a lot more healing than one Aetherflow skill. As long as there's enough damage in the whole fight to do all your Misery, each Afflatus skill is a 75p loss over Glare, a bit less than Ruin II, and less than the multiple Aetherflow required to do the same job.

---

But if the mechanic can be handled with a single aetherflow skill as opposed to a single Lily then it ends up being more efficient then the Lily because if you dont spend the 3 lillies and use Misery then the lillies do become 300 potency losses. Using a Lily without using 2 more and Misery is a larger loss then spending an energy Drain on a single skill. Misery is an all or nothing skill by nature.

The scholar may be loosing damage by weaving and spending a stack but if it saves the cohealer from gcd healing then the loss is compensated for. Two healers optimizing their cooldowns to allow both to dps will always be better then one healer 100% dpsing and the other handling all the healing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volkaj

Except 3 Lilies is a lot more healing than one Aetherflow skill. As long as there's enough damage in the whole fight to do all your Misery, each Afflatus skill is a 75p loss over Glare, a bit less than Ruin II, and less than the multiple Aetherflow required to do the same job.

---

Correct me if I’m wrong but.. wasn’t it a 300 total potency loss for every Misery? Glare is 300 potency and 4 GCDs worth is 1200 potency. You need to spend 4 GCDs to use Misery which amounts to 900 potency so that means you lose 300 potency overall. Unless I’m missing something?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdamFyi

Correct me if I’m wrong but.. wasn’t it a 300 total potency loss for every Misery? Glare is 300 potency and 4 GCDs worth is 1200 potency. You need to spend 4 GCDs to use Misery which amounts to 900 potency so that means you lose 300 potency overall. Unless I’m missing something?

---

That is correct, however, since Misery is an all or nothing mechanic if a situation calls for a single heal, an aetherflow heal will be more efficient then a single lily heal due to the Lily not being refunded until you spend more Lilies and use Misery. So until you have Misery each individual Lily is a 300 potency loss. Whereas Misery will refund 3 of the 4 gcds spent on the mechanic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brandedblade

That is correct, however, since Misery is an all or nothing mechanic if a situation calls for a single heal, an aetherflow heal will be more efficient then a single lily heal due to the Lily not being refunded until you spend more Lilies and use Misery. So until you have Misery each individual Lily is a 300 potency loss. Whereas Misery will refund 3 of the 4 gcds spent on the mechanic.

---

Here a situation = the whole encounter. I have to point this out.
If there's enough damage going out to warrant 3 Lilies (even normal mode trials have enough) then Lilies are gonna be more efficient than Aetherflow-based heals.

Your mileage will vary based on your healing plan (if there's healing to be done in the last ~30s you're probably gonna want to use AF over Lilies for instance), but in general, over the course of an entire fight, Lilies will beat AF-based heals efficiency-wise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AdamFyi

Correct me if I’m wrong but.. wasn’t it a 300 total potency loss for every Misery? Glare is 300 potency and 4 GCDs worth is 1200 potency. You need to spend 4 GCDs to use Misery which amounts to 900 potency so that means you lose 300 potency overall. Unless I’m missing something?

---

You're correct in your assessment. You have to get Misery out to get the best efficiency possible, and it is a loss of 300 over spamming Glare.
That said, you used 3 Lilies worth of healing, which will usually cover a lot more than the Aetherflow equivalent.

If, over the course of the entire fight, there is less than 3 Lilies worth of healing to be done, then yes, by all means have your SCH cohealer do it.

P.S. Note that this doesn't consider the use of Lilies for movement, which reinforces my point anyway.

Why is it that when historically overpowered jobs become marginally weaker than or even equivalent to other jobs in the same role, people feel the need to cry on the forum and re-establish their former op status?

SCH is absolutely fine. It suffers the same problems as other healers, but it's not weak by any stretch of the imagination.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lastelli

Why is it that when historically overpowered jobs become marginally weaker than or even equivalent to other jobs in the same role, people feel the need to cry on the forum and re-establish their former op status?

SCH is absolutely fine. It suffers the same problems as other healers, but it's not weak by any stretch of the imagination.

---

Exactly. Despite the simplified dps rotation, its the same job from a healing standpoint. Scholars strength has never been raw healing output but rather its ability to fill in gaps in its cohealer's toolkit. WHM and AST have always had more power healing by viture of having a strong upfront gcd heal. And a well played SCH can help reduce the number of these heals that need to be use by various means, it used to be more by mitigating but now it's more by slotting in its ogcd toolkit.

AST and WHM do have free ogcds yes. But they still have fewer options then sch does.

WHM has Benediction, Tetragrammton, Asylum, and Divine Benison, it does have a 5th in Assize but more often then not it's used for dps. If you want to stretch then Plenary can be a 6th but it requires gcd heals to get the fullest out of.

AST has Essential Dignity, Celestial Opposition, Collective Unconscious, Celestial Intersection, Earthly Star, and Horoscope (which does count since you dont have to use a gcd heal to get a heal out of it) , the same as whm if you count PI as an ogcd heal, more if you dont

SCH has, free (but very weak) Embraces, Whispering Dawn, Sacred Soil (post 78 ofc), Lustrate, Indomitabilty, Excogitation, Fey Union, Fey Blessing, and finally Seraphic Veil and Consolation. And if you want to count the skills that interact with GCD heals like PI, then it has another 2 in deployment tactics and emergency tactics.

While AST does have free ogcd space, most of its ogcd kit is tied to 60 sec cooldowns and are very dependent on your Sect to determine how they function. Not only that, two of them, Earthly Star and Horoscope, require setup to get the most out of them. The cast time for Malefic is their greatest boon but it's just as much for their card mechanics as it is for their healing. Their tradeoff is lower personal damage and the need to actively buff their party to make up the difference.

WHM is a raw powerhouse, theres no use denying it. However, while the WHM does have the powerful lily skills, it effectively means your ogcd weaving is restricted to either dia reapplications or by potentially waiting 30 seconds for a new Lily to proc. While Lily's do have Misery to compensate, it's still damage negative outside of cleave/AoE over using 4 glares.

SCH's weakness is the cost of their skills. However, they also have the most expansive and versatile of the ogcd kits, and can thus slot them in to spaces the WHM or AST cant cover, and any excess healing they dont need they can convert to damage with energy Drain. They also have the fairy to provide them with some more standard free ogcd healing. Having a tradeoff to most of their healing is how they're balanced around having the sheer amount of flexibility it has compared to the other two.

AST actually has more lossless healing than SCH does. Sacred Soil is just so OP that it outshines quite a bit of WHM and ASTs options.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

AST actually has more lossless healing than SCH does. Sacred Soil is just so OP that it outshines quite a bit of WHM and ASTs options.

---

It also has lower personal damage then sch and requires the use of a buff maintenance mechanic to make up, if not surpass sch. And alot of its lossless healing is like I said, more cooldown restrictive and are depending on the AST's sect to determine how to use and get the most efficiency out of it.

AST is also worse on mana efficiency, perhaps their mana efficiency issues are an intended weakness to balance against their lossless heals? So while true AST has all the lossless heals, it's also the most punished on mp when forced to access its gcd kit. It does have Neutral sect and synastry to pump out more efficiency from their gcds, but they're also on long cooldowns.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

Sacred Soil is just so OP that it outshines quite a bit of WHM and ASTs options.

---

WHM Asylum has more healing over it's duration (800 potency vs 500 potency) with a plus healing modifier.

Throw in Temerance as well and you get the damage reduction with even more healing modifier.