So, they fix 2B's tights due to community feedback...

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

In addition to the comment the same poster you replying regarding WHM's lily above, they both came across as from someone who doesn't play the classes at all, or only play it badly. I want to use this opportunity to point our the reality of the "complain" people see on the forums and why the devs sometime doesn't seem to response to them.

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Been healing in this game since late HW. All three healers are level 80, i450+, and I don't grind roulettes with other jobs to feed gear to another. Have just about every 'chievo you can get with a healer as well. How long you've been doing it? The reality of the devs not responding to all the complaints on the forums is simply because they are under no obligation to do so.

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They just blindly follow the 'hype' without actually understand the context of the class. It's one thing for it to be a meme for fun and game (given the countless gif/cartoon on reddit), but it's another thing when people take that as the way the class intended to play. Samething for the old 'fishing Balance' on AST.

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Actually, that's just called reading a tooltip. No parsers, fflogs, trying to beat my time on a SSS dummy; just good 'ol fashioned reading and putting it to practice. I really shouldn't have to point out that how a class is "supposed" to play is entirely subjective.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Fact of the matter is (and since people want to use all content and not just savage/ultimate, which I am totally fine with) WHM or healing in general has a ogcd and regen threshold before you start using GCDs to heal. This includes Solace. The only exception is Rapture and the reason for this is because WHM has no ogcd AoE heal to turn to when they need the mobility.

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Ehh ... What do you categorize Assize as if not an oGCD AOE heal? Assylum can also be technically an oGCD heal. Rapture is NOT an oGCD, it's an instant-GCD. You don't seem to even know the term for the argument you are using, so let me help you out:

- oGCD: off-GCD, action that doesn't take a global cool down to cast. Assize, Assylum (a ground AOE but can be counted as oGCD), Tetra, Benediction, Divine Benison fall onto this.
- GCD: action that cost a global cool down to use. All the skills in the lily line (solace, rapture, misery) belong to this category, as well as the Cure and medica line.

The GCD category break down into two sub category: instant or cast, with the lily line belong to the former and the Cure/Medica the latter. A cast make you lose the entire GCD for one action, the instant allow you to weave in 1 or 2 additional actions in the same GCD. And that's what make the lily system so powerful

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, you either have to over heal, choose to use Solace over Tetra

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Uh ... why? They don't belong to same category, and it's not like one prevent you from using another. I use them both at the same time all the time.

- In dungeon: it let you double top the tank from sub 50% in one GCD. (Solace GCD with Tetra oGCD weave).
- In raid: you can heal two targets at the same time if the situation demands it (share tank busters, or heal the tank and a stray DPS).

In both case, it let you heal effectively, you get two heal for the price of one. So ... ?

Yes, sometime you will see healers flood the raid with overheal, but depending on the situation it's not necessary sub-optimal, and maybe even sub-optimal if you don't do it. Unlike SB, the lily for Solace and Rapture is generated automatically at no cost to the player. That means if you sit on 3 Lily and don't use them, you are wasting your resource. And the math works out simply put that once you commit to use one single afflatus skill, you already pay the price for the use of a misery in full, so your next two afflatus heal are 'essentially free heal' with mobility/weaving benefit. That's not sub-optimized, that actually optimized.

You comment exactly exemplify the points I'm trying to make earlier.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Been healing in this game since late HW. All three healers are level 80, i450+, and I don't grind roulettes with other jobs to feed gear to another. Have just about every 'chievo you can get with a healer as well. How long you've been doing it?

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Been healing since 2.0, have 5 healers at 80 (all 3 on main and SCH/WHM on alt), all BiS at 470. Had cleared all the fights there is to clear outside of Ultimate (currently working on the last phase of UwU). Your point being?

I mean ... I only bring this up because you somehow think it will help vindicating your argument so there you go, I think it's irrelevant. Oh and it is because I am a WHM main since 2.0 that I fully appreciate how good it is right now. That's why I'm afraid it's probably just down hill from here.But let me tell you something:

I also had been trying to learn AST since it first came out and guess what, I have absolutely no shame in admitting I'm still very tragic with it comparing to the upper echelon of raiders. My years of playing it as well my the ilvl I have on a class has absolutely no bearing on my skill and understand of it. So I'm not exactly sure how you think it will help your argument when the things you spoke clearly demonstrate your lack of technical understand of the class itself.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Actually, that's just called reading a tooltip. No parsers, fflogs, trying to beat my time on a SSS dummy; just good 'ol fashioned reading and putting it to practice. I really shouldn't have to point out that how a class is "supposed" to play is entirely subjective.

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Funny, you actually wouldn't hear any argument from me against this. As you can see my post in this thread, I actually advocate that people don't need to look for external resource if they simply want to be decent about their class.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ution%21/page3

But neither I'm against people looking for external resource either, my argument here is neither against nor for, I only take issue when people following a guide or the meta "blindly", without understanding it. Or when people talk about meta simply from a 2nd hand experience which often what demonstrated on this forum. Your post was simply used as the immediate example, it's not like I'm arguing with you. Rather, I'm simply arguing why the devs only look at 'real' data, not just the "noise" generated on the forum when they want to make significant change to the classes.

I say this to you specifically though, it's commendable to try and learn everything 'the old fashion way', in fact that's how I think everyone should start out. But it's also necessary to keep an open mind from new perspective when:

- You 'put' your experience into claim on a public debate such as this, it's subjected to scrutiny. Especially when you claim is "factually" wrong, claiming WHM has no ogcd AoE heal is not a subjective statement.
- You may be proud about the theory you discovers yourself, but you can only improve if you're willing to compare and look at other parity. And no, putting your own theory to experiment on your own just to give you a pat in the back doesn't count, that's like asking a company to review their own product.

I consider myself these days as someone who can play decently with WHM, with the clear/achievement/number whatever you want to to call them to back it up. I'm proud to say a lot of it I discovered myself, but equally proud to say a lot of it also came from the help and pointers I got along the way. The result is I now can play in a way that both fun for me, and no party I'm with will find my performance wanting. If you simply want to talk about playing style though, I don't think that the direction the discussion was started, and also one I have no intend of pursuing, to each their own - as long as we're not in the same party.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I far more often find players fooled by the illusion of choice that was the previous system. If you weren't fishing for balance, you weren't doing what other players brought you in the party to do. Cards like the Bole and the Ewer were situational at best. Even in an optimal scenario to use them, neither were readily available to you because of the RNG. You would never use spread on an Ewer or a Bole to have for those situations because there is no guarantee they will come to pass. Royal Road; Spread; Redraw; Sleeve Draw... all a means to shave away the layers of RNG so you can AoE the Balance. If all else failed, then 99.9% of the time the card would be Minor Arcana fodder.

Tanks have their own mitigation, caster jobs all have the means to restore their own MP. Your bole, and your ewer was hardly ever needed, and in the situations where they helped, it was very likely because things weren't going right in the first place. Even then, the increase to raid DPS is still going to be more favorable as high outgoing DMG is one of the best ways to mitigate incoming DMG.

All balance. All the time. Always, or GTFO. That was the SB AST everyone loves so much.

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Making the best out of what hand you were dealt felt more engaging than fishing for balance before pre pulling in raids and etc. You still had other methods of turning either card into a instant heal effect. If you were so desperate to make the AST out of your party "Fish for balance" then somethings wrong with your parties DPS. Having a 19k MP Pool was very satisfying as an AST, having 10k with no other means to obtain MP other than lucid is awful. Illusion of choice? I swear you're making that excuse sound worse than it already is. Some people like the new card system? Good for them, it's the most boring unsatisfying experience I've had playing AST in 2 years. I know this for sure, those people are a small minority compared to the huge outcry I've seen about it. When the unique system of a class turns people away, you know there's something wrong with it.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

This is funny. This has been the MO that the fan base has praised since 2.0. Ignore certain issues, but talk in length about superficial design aspects.



Not sure how we can gauge if players are happy about healers. But they are mostly the job in need for bonus. That spot used to be exclusively tanks spot. That is superficial evidence though. I doubt SE is going to come out and say if healer numbers are down though. That would make their choices look bad. If healer numbers were good or better since expansion wouldn't they have gloated about it while dismissing complaints about some healer adjustment.

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On my data centre at least, I have had a roulette bonus for playing a healer once. In six months. And I very rarely do roulettes on anything but healer. Possibly this is different on your data centre, but it appears that in Europe we don't have a lack of healers

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

This is funny. This has been the MO that the fan base has praised since 2.0. Ignore certain issues, but talk in length about superficial design aspects.



Not sure how we can gauge if players are happy about healers. But they are mostly the job in need for bonus. That spot used to be exclusively tanks spot. That is superficial evidence though. I doubt SE is going to come out and say if healer numbers are down though. That would make their choices look bad. If healer numbers were good or better since expansion wouldn't they have gloated about it while dismissing complaints about some healer adjustment.

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A survey was done on Reddit for job satisfaction a little while back and it came back the SCH, AST and MNK were the three least satisfied jobs and overwhelmingly so. Whilst it is older data now and conducted in only 1 community, I think it is currently the best statistical data we have. If SE were not so averse to running surveys, they could conduct one themselves and not only get an idea of how people feel about healers, but a well designed survey could get quantifiable feedback in how people want healers to be improved, whether specific healers or healers overall. I think it'd be a more transparent way of approaching it. Nowt wrong with accepting that healer adjustments are hard and is a hard one to know what the community wants especially given people tend to only tell you what they want when they're unhappy with what they've got. A well written survey can give you a lot of useful information.

I personally like the old card system better because the decision making behind “play with the cards you’re dealt with” was what kept me engaged with the job. I understand why they had to change it and I think it’s a good change, but the way they implemented it is pretty bad.

Between the three healers, AST’s casts per minute is significantly higher than WHM and SCH, and almost comparable to a DPS role. As a controller player, having to constantly shift between party members with the soft targeting feature to play cards puts a number on my hands. Would be easier for Keyboard and Mouse users since its much easier to target people with that setup. Recently had to swap over to SCH because I couldn’t physically keep doing Alexander Ultimate with the amount of button pressing required. It was much slower and methodical with the old card system.

On one hand I’d like to use macros to make the process easier so I could keep playing a job I like aesthetically and have fun on, but on the other hand, I get chastised for even thinking about using macros for cards because it isn’t optimal. But eh, what can you do? :v

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Originally Posted by Cetek14

About GNB sound effects - in 5.0 it was basically gunblade, slicing, some mechanical clicking, pulling the trigger. It was fine. Then for no reason it was changed to something resembling a club, all slicing removed, trigger sounds removed.
It's a huge downgrade and definitely majority wants them changed or even reverted, but for no reason devs refuse. I'm still voicing my opinion because for me these new sounds are so awful that it's like one big april fools joke. You constantly hear these loud thumps but your character wields a blade. Extremely annoying.
Remember to send them in-game suggestion via support desk menu if you also feel like blade shouldn't sound like a club.

You can find 5.0 and 5.01 comparison on Twitter.

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Excuse me, but which majority? Was there an official poll in the game with later announced results of this poll? I suppose I somehow managed to miss it then, because I don't remember any pop-up announcements with request to write an opinion about sounds for the job in these 6 months since ShB release. A lot of players don't even use forums, twitter, reddit and any other medias (and there isn't even any guarantee that those users from other medias aren't the same people from forum), they just play silently, using in-game chat at max.
I love these forums. People here at first tell "forum isn't a majority" and "don't speak for everyone" but later suddenly "majority wants" when it applies to their personal opinion. Amazing.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Because that means overhauling the character creation system, and something something PS3 limitations small indie company I dunno pick your meme.

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Well overhauling stuff is part of their job isnt it? You want money you earn it by doing something.

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Originally Posted by Halivel

I love these forums. People here at first tell "forum isn't a majority" and "don't speak for everyone" but later suddenly "majority wants" when it applies to their personal opinion. Amazing.

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Every mixed pool of players - e.g. the forums or reddit that is not funneled into several topics such as "Healer forums" where you'd get different views on those - is still a small albeit valid sample. Also, she forgot to mention probably that it was about the people she talkted too or her observations. But as soon as you explain where your expierence (and thus opinions) come from, the generation Facebook cries because they can't process a bit more background and then bark "nubudy carezz" in your face. So until then, people do not do get into detail and neither want to put 500 disclaimers, so you gotta add them on the fly while reading. It's called "reading between lines" or just "common sense" then. She was not saying the majority of what. Her friends, the overal gamer population or the cats in the shelter?