So, can we just ban damage meters already.

Ok, there's something very fishy with OPs story:

> Came here right after that situation happened on a first run of a MSQ dungeon in the 40s, meaning they couldn't progress beyond it without clearing it
> Has minion from a 2.5 MSQ, which unlocks the last lvl 50 MSQ dungeon (Keeper of the Lake)
> More than 100 quests between the 2 points and OP made the thread about 3 hours ago

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Originally Posted by Saintly

Since this topic have been discussed time and again, ill say what i said before.

I'm positive most people would have no problem if SE disabled 3rd party parsing in normal/hard content and instead added an official parser for EX/Ults.
That way casual players can enjoy/complete the story without harassment and so can more HC players.

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While that does sound like a good compromise on parsers in general and I wouldnt object to that, I'd like to point out again that you dont need a parser to spot a clearly underperforming player in a dungeon. You might not have accurate numbers to back off your claim and you have to pay attention to what they're doing, but even without a parser it can be very obvious that, who and maybe even how someone is underperforming - foes dying slowly? Lets watch the castbards, buffs, desbuffs, dots and animations of your party for a while and you'll spot bards and summoners who dont use their dots, casters who dont AoE, healers who dont dps, tanks who dont use cooldowns and so on easly.
I dont need a parser to know that 80% of all paladins I encounted in high level content the past few days are underperforming. I just need to watch their MP and see them never getting touched throughout the fight (not for anyone unware: paladin has some very strong castingspells that make up a good portion of the damage contribution).

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Originally Posted by Saintly

Since this topic have been discussed time and again, ill say what i said before.

I'm positive most people would have no problem if SE disabled 3rd party parsing in normal/hard content and instead added an official parser for EX/Ults.
That way casual players can enjoy/complete the story without harassment and so can more HC players.

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Unless SE offers something with the same current freedoms as 3rd party parsers, why would anyone switch?

You also forget the competitive aspect of FFLogs, which would still require a 3rd party parser.

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Originally Posted by SweetestLily

The parser is not bad. The person using it to grief people is bad. We need to get out of this mentality of blaming inanimate tools for shitty human behavior.

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and that's why we got gun ban/knife ban

I think the current "dont ask, dont tell" is good enough, it is usually raider in static who want to use it, and they could keep it to themselves

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I can tell this community is going to be a lot of fun going forward. Can't wait.

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The forum is only used by a small percentage of players.

You said something the hive mind doesn't approve of. That's a prime chance for you to get lectured and talked down to for fake internet points.

You already received an answer (report it and let the GMs handle it). You can continue to debate with other players, but you won't be changing any minds. Not worth it.

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Originally Posted by Rivxkobe

I never said telling someone they are bad, or that they should unsub, isn't harassment. It is. But telling someone they aren't doing enough damage, or to do something, or to pull their weight because you don't want to carry them are not.

How about instead of twisting words or saying I said something I never did you actually discuss my point or the points being made by others in this thread?

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Simply stating "DPS pull your weight" or simply stating "DPS - do more damage" IS harrassement.

I'm not twisting your words, I am discussing your point, I'm stating your sentence was overly vague.

There's a million ways to help someone they need to improve, some that could be considered harrasement.

The medium is the message- it matters more how you deliver a message rather than the point you actually want to make.

Harassement has more to do with you delivered the message rather than the message expressed.

No one is getting reported for politely asking a tank to use tank stance.

Someone doing poor DPS doesn't give you the right to tell them to put their weight in whatever format you feel is appropriate.

If anything, I am enhancing your statement by clarifying that there are limits to how you convey a message.

Rather than twist your words, I improved them by adding clarity.

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Originally Posted by Forever_Learning

Simply stating "DPS pull your weight" or simply stating "DPS - do more damage" IS harrassement.

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Man, posts like these are why I opt to kick players who don't play their class correctly without even talking to them.

I'm sorry the big meanie held you accountable for maintaining a minimum standard of contribution in a group/team game

But it does by default make them look like a jerk to everyone if they do it after being told someone is new, rather than being able to justify it as just 'calling out a bad.' Subtle difference, but it's there.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

lol, fair enough. I honestly didn't think reporting them would do anything.

Is it bannable if they don't actually post the parse?

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Gonna play devil's advocate here to highlight something.

I can tell in dungeons which dps are doing good or bad damage without meters. There's a few ways but some are:

-One DPS has lower overall threat than a healer
-Bosses are taking substantially longer to kill
-I can see them casting or attack animations and its sporadic at best (this is more noticeable for healers. Ive seen healers stand there not casting anything for 2-3 GCDs worth of time when there's no real damage on the tank or party).


Point is, more veteran players can tell when someone is doing bad damage. Is it always accurate? No, Gear and skill can affect judgement. Can Veterans make mistakes? Sure, as its just deduction and observation so there is room for error.

Should a veteran player be getting on the case of a sprout and being an ass? No. Not out the gate at least. IMO, First thing from vets mouths shouldve been to ask them if they want pointers cause it seems theyre struggling damage wise. Try to offer up advice if its a problem. Now if the sprout doesnt listen or throws it back in the vets face...well, getting on their case wouldnt be totally unjustified. Though at that point maybe kicking them would be better.


Beyond that, the GM would have to see fairly reasonable proof they were using a parser to belittle the other player. If they said something like "Do more dps! the healer is doing 800 more DPS than you!" its obvious. If theyre saying "Do more DPS! We keep hitting enrage or not meeting the DPS check!" they cant do to much other than chastise them because hitting enrage means that there isnt enough DPS. Pair that if the DPS has lower overall enmity than the healers, and you got a situation where a more veteran player can see and deduce that the other DPS isnt doing all that much without needing a parser.