As a player who's never been reported, why aren't behavior penalties ever forgiven?

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

In what? The game is definitely not the place for a personal dispute, especially a heated dispute. I'm all against seemingly unreasonable action taken against a player, but this isn't one of them.

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So yelling at them over discord is suddenly more appropriate? By your choice of words you act as if it's an online relationship it's moot. The point is, it don't matter. If that is the rules of their relationship and they're violated then they need to discuss it. If they talk in-game or discord, it does not matter. Who even thinks about that in the middle of a conversation? "Oh we should move this to discord. I don't want to give them material I could get in trouble with." If that's going through your mind then you already know you're doing wrong. Let's not be ridiculous now.

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Originally Posted by Diggles

1. It's their business, yet you brought it up in a public discussion in an attempt to reinforce a point (a point which was ironically undermined by your anecdote).

2. "She cheated on me, officer! That's why I started hitting her!". Do you think this person is justified in their outburst when you see them on Cops? No. No reasonable person would deny that this person deserves to be punished. Part of being a responsible member of society is controlling your own emotions. It doesn't matter what emotional state you were in when you did it - the rules still apply to you.

Like I said, this is why I have a hard time taking posts like this seriously. There is always some detail left out, glossed over, or an attempt to justify one's actions that were clearly in violation of the rules. Everyone is always an innocent victim with no idea why they got actioned.

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This isn't Japan where showing (too much) emotion in the open is considered as negative, outside of the fictional world. Heck, were talking about a game world. Besides, people can still be "responible members of society" and display (negative) emotions. We are no robots with a 1 or 0 binary mindset, clearly seperated from the other with no chance of interferance. While such topics do indeed belong to a private communication plattform another - more sensible- solution could also have been to simply warn the person and tell them to resolve it outside of the game. That instant punishement crap is like killing a fly with a shotgut.

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

So yelling at them over discord is suddenly more appropriate? By your choice of words you act as if it's an online relationship it's moot. The point is, it don't matter. If that is the rules of their relationship and they're violated then they need to discuss it. If they talk in-game or discord, it does not matter. Who even thinks about that in the middle of a conversation? "Oh we should move this to discord. I don't want to give them material I could get in trouble with." If that's going through your mind then you already know you're doing wrong. Let's not be ridiculous now.

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This thread is about the enforcement of the ToS of the game. In that context, taking the dispute elsewhere, out of the game, would have, yes, been more appropriate. If you start cussing and starting arguments in-game over some personal dispute, are you really surprised when a GM takes notice and takes action? I mean c'mon here. "Rules of the relationship" has literally nothing to do with the conversation here. You are going to tell me the GM is supposed to take in account that some guy's internet GF "cheated" on him through in game roleplay and they are supposed to throw the enforcement of their ToS out the window because it's a passionate moment for them? Give me a break.

Also, for that matter, having "rules" for a relationship is never gonna end well.

Anyway I'm not going to response anymore because I do agree the GM did what they felt they needed to do and that they don't really have much choice in the game. But I still stand by what I said.
I apologize for getting a bit off topic as this is not the place to discuss morality and ethics.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

For that matter "loved one"? Are we talking about an internet "gf" who had some "ERP" session? I don't think this equates to "cheating". I mean, are we on the same plane of existence here?

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As someone who was in a RP relationship that basically got nuked because my counterpart had to switch servers (raidgroup and all that jazz), trust me, feelings can run quite deep if you let them. So I can understand the feelings of jealousy and betrayal.

I was surprised myself how hard it hit me when he transferred, didn't expect that from a bit of role play fun. Oo
I definitely learned from it and took precautions for future RP endeavors.

No clue, but not so long ago the made the ToS even stricter and you can pretty much get reported for just sneezing now.


Basically what I do is just don't talk at all any more in the game (except for the FC and my static LS), and I go on the sh*tpost ffxiv subreddit instead, you can meme and joke around as much as you like without having to fear bans.
Also a nice bonus on there is that there are no 'special snowflakes'.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

I love when people say they're paranoid about talking to anyone because they're afraid of getting banned. The only reason for that is if you regularly say punishable things. I've gotten snippy and have been involved in some pretty heated conversations in-game and have never been punished or banned in any way. Not because I was lucky or that the system is faulty, but because I know the lines you're not supposed to cross.

It's pretty easy to tell the difference between an argument and saying something offensive. If you're afraid you'll get banned for talking, it's probably because you don't know the difference. Or you're one of those people that think if someone gets hurt it's their fault and not the fault of the person that said the hurtful thing.

But honestly, the fact that I've never been disciplined means you have to say or do some pretty blatantly awful things, and to that I say: If you were reprimanded twice like 4 years ago and then got in trouble again today, that doesn't tell me they shouldn't consider your past offenses in your punishment; it tells me it's been 4 years and you haven't learned your lesson. And a single "oops" or misunderstanding doesn't get you perma-banned.

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This right here strikes right on the head of the nail. No one I have been playing with in my to and from playing since ARR release have ever had GM action taken against them, and some of them can be quite colorful individuals at times, and the only times I have seen action taken against people were when they were saying very very rude stuff I don't want to say in this forum or spoke too loudly about their usage of certain mods that are against the ToS. Some people think that if they just look the wrong way towards people they can get banned. If your vocabulary towards people includes slurs or excessive use of the F word and you think it is odd that you get banned, then maybe it is time to take off those internet tough guy pants. My philosophy is to speak towards people online in the same way I would speak to people IRL as there is still a person on the other side of that screen.

I had no idea they had such a strict enforcement system. Three strikes of any kind *ever* and you're permabanned? Holy crap, that's insane. Is that really how it is?

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

You can probably get around a lot of those with specific wording. Unfortunately, they have pretty much written their ToS in a way that allows them to act on whatever they feel like.

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Yes and while I would love to give the benefit of the doubt and believe that GMs are infallible. I know that they are not. I have seen GM's misuse their power before in other games and have personally gotten one banned/fired for it. So all it takes is for one GM to have a bad day, one that doesn't like you for whatever personal reason, or simply bad luck of taking something out of context.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I have never been banned, warned, or talked to by a GM either!

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I've been playing MMOs for 20 years now, started with EQ. I have never been banned. And only had ONE suspension on a WoW account. In that case I had stopped playing a year and a half before the suspension. Somehow the account got hacked and I got a notice it was suspended for suspicious activity. I contacted Blizzard, explained to them that I hadn't logged in over a year. They were able to confirm it, rolled back the account to before anything was lost. And they 'regrettably' said that the expansion added to the account while it was compromised would remain, with a wink. And of course no strike or penalty assessed to the account.

With how people have been treated before, I'm not so sure you'd see the same treatment from SE. We're walking on eggshells.

And even though I've never been actioned in a game before. These rules are so strict and so ambiguous, that it makes me honestly nervous.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

And even though I've never been actioned in a game before. These rules are so strict and so ambiguous, that it makes me honestly nervous.

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That's how I feel. And for me, there's the added complication that I roleplay. I mean, the ToS says "don't curse at anyone," it doesn't say "don't curse at anyone unless you're roleplaying." And it's kind of hard to write a situation with any gravity if the characters involved can't use bad words like adults. Even NPCs curse, and in pretty colorful ways.

Lots of roleplayers say that a GM surely would understand that it's just RP. But after the whole "penalized for a vulgar FC slogan inherited by an unused alt" thing, I no longer believe that.

It would all be okay if strikes were ever forgiven. But if a vengeful bystander can report me for writing a foul-mouthed desert monk miqo'te and get me marked for life if the wrong GM handles it, putting all the hours and dollars and friends I have in the game at risk, then...