Limited Expansion

It's pretty disingenuous to say it has 'limited weather' because it's always day, when they've actually implemented an entirely new dynamic weather system where we gradually bring tge night back to the eternal day, and the sky changes for each player based on story progression.

Lets just word every sentence so we can throw "limited" on it to get a point across.

My warrior is limited, he can't use a dark knight sword.

My mounts are limited, they can't swim underwater

My blacksmith is limited, he can't cook food.

See what I did there?

Blue mage is limited but we're getting two full jobs. Also blue mage is SB content not ShB content and wouldn't reflect on ShB anyway.

The races are mono gendered but there's also two of them to balance that out.

The equipment thing I agree on, hope they work out the technical aspects before too long so they can wear helms.

The no night cycle thing I think is a good move. This is supposed to be a realm being consumed by light with only one region left inhabitable by mortals. Having something like constant daylight is a good way to show that something is wrong and balance needs to be restored.

We don't know what's going on with the garlean story during this yet, but even if it is, that doesn't mean the story is being 'limited.' HW also didn't have much of the garleans/ascian plot. They were THERE sure but other than meeting Varis in person not a lot actually happened to move that story forward, it was all about Ishgard and the Dragons. Nothing really changed in the status quo of the garlean/ascian plot in HW other than Lahabrea and that other Ascian dying and even then the initial reveal of 'oh crap the WOL killed an ascian' happened first in HW, this was just that happening again. Yet I would not call Ishgard a limited expansion.

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Originally Posted by Imuka

And here come the 2 big Problems:
Eureka sells itself as niche Content while at the same time locking the Relic behind it and getting handled by the Devs like the new Main Content.
4 Releases in 12 Months...that is a Niche as Omega or the second Dungeon with every second Patch from my View.

Mostly, because it is not fun. When you have maybe 4-6 Hours to play per Week, what would you prefer:
Doing a bit of Savage and Dungeons and enjoy the little time you have or go into Eureka and farm Trash Mobs for 2 Hours on 3 Evenings?
If he would like to do that, he could just play BDO, because the Combat of that Game is at least fun, when you farm Trash Mobs.

And doing the Relic for all 15 Classes is something for the Players who can spend +100 Hours per Month for the Game.
But Players with a Family Life Time Schedule often have even Problems finishing a single one...or reach the max Level of one of the Eureka instances without turning this thing into a thight scheduled Job before the masses have moved on.

This is a Game that is supposed to be fun, not a second Job to keep yourself busy.

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1. Problem:
Believe it or not, but Eureka relic is faster than Heavensward relic on release. BOTH are completely optional and both can be done casually and also both are time sinks if you want more than 1.

2. Problem:
Fun is subjectiv for everyone. If you find a special content not fun, dont do it.
And you dont have to kill Trash for 2 Hours in Eureka, you can kill some mobs for challenge log, then do a fate that pops, then do some bunny fates and then leave after 1 hour and still do a dungeon or Raid.

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Originally Posted by Freyt

So we got the limited job, Blue Mage, which will continue to be limited throughout 5.x.

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Actually, they will be continuing development of it throughout 5.0.

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We got the limited races, Male only Ronso and Female only Viera.

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Not really. They had time to create 1 new race. But they wanted to create 2 new races that people had been asking for (a beast race and Viera). Since they only had time for 1, they decided on doing the male Hrothgar and then had to decide to do either female Hrothgar or female Viera. They chose to do female Viera, likely because of the raid content and it's more popular.

So we actually got the equivalent of a full race.

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We have limited equipment. Those new races won't even display many helmets within the game.

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Yes and no. It's called tradeoffs. In exchange for not seeing helmet headgear, the new races have several unique heads to choose from and other additional options they haven't detailed yet.

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We have limited fields. No night time. No weather. Or maybe there will be some crazy weather effects; haven't shown it to us though.

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This one is utter BS, sorry for being blunt. For one, they have unique weather in the "always day" mode, and then during the story we will "unlock" night, so there's nothing limited about day/night or weather at all.

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It seems the Garlean story line is getting shelved... does that too count as limited?

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Obviously we will be able to go back and forth between the worlds, so there's nothing indicating they are dropping the Garlemald storyline. Depending on the outcome of the war, they may even be resolving it.

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FFXIV clearly has a limited budget.

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Well, this is the one point you made that is true. But in no relation to the way you meant it.

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Originally Posted by Laphael

And you dont have to kill Trash for 2 Hours in Eureka, you can kill some mobs for challenge log, then do a fate that pops, then do some bunny fates and then leave after 1 hour and still do a dungeon or Raid.

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I know that because I once forced myself into that sorry...crap.

Bunny Fate...doing a Bunny or another Fate...back to the Bunny Fate...and doing a Bunny or another Fate...back to the Bunny Fate...and doing a Bunny or another Fate...back to the Bunny Fate...and doing a Bunny or another Fate...back to the Bunny Fate...and doing a Bunny or another Fate...back to the Bunny Fate...and doing a Bunny or another Fate...back to the Bunny Fate...and doing a Bunny or another Fate...etc...

This was basicly what we did for 2 Hours and nothing else.
Mindlessly running back and forth between a Fate and the Bunny Fate.
And if that one Member of my Guild would have not carried me with her Chocobo, I would not even reached any Fate outside of the Bunny Fate. So I could just stand around for 7-8 Minutes till the Players return from some place on the Map.

Is this modern MMO Design in 2018-2019? I have seen Games with more Content made in 72 Game Jams made by 4 Design Students.
Is this the amazing and groundbreacking Gameplay and Gamedesign he always promises on Stage? Is this the pinnacle of MMO Gamedesign that he likes to call Eureka?
Is this the Content he calls "Something that was never experienced in a MMO-RPG before?

It sounds more like a Treadmill created by Activision to make Players spend Money on the Ingame Shop of the Game...and if we would talk about Activision, they would sell us the Relic by now for 9,99€ in the Store.
And Activision is nutorious for streching everything as much as possible to make it a hassle, so that Players buy the things from the Store with real Money.

And I do not hate Eureka, but I dislike how Players defend this thing with every straw they find and call it a Niche Content while nearly everybody can see how it aims to be a thing for the masses.
"Its not shallow...you can do...*states several activities based on using exploits in Eureka*.".
"It is not made for everybody, while at the same time being sold by the Devs for literally everybody", because Yoshida is obsessed with the Idea that everybody loves Trash Mob and Fate Farm. He was told the opposite several times by the Feedback of the Diadem...and still he can't drop his believes that everybody loves Fates and Trash Mob Farm...because a Part of the Community wants some FF11 flair in the Game.
Which would be nice, if this flair of 11 would come with some of the depth of 11 and not the depth of a paddling pool for Children.
I would have liked it if there would be some of that depth. One of my old Raid Members told me a lot of her time in 11 and all those things there were and it sounded like a lot of fun. The only thing she said when we were in Eureka was "This is not how 11 was, not even close. Please don't think that this is what we had done for several years. This is without any of the real depth of 11".

"You can easily do it, when you get a few people of your Guild to carry you through the whole thing. It is fun when you reach max Level.".
A Game needs to be fun, as soon as you play it, not after 40 Hours or earlier when people carry you through a large "unfun Gameplay Zone".
A Game should not feel good as soon as you are done with the things in the Game and feel free of the hassle of a mindless Task, that underchallenges every Player in the Game.
It is not fun being carried around by a few high Level Players like a bag of Potatoes. It is not now and it will never be.
You struggle with the Fate Monster and get one shotted, while the rest of the Party can just stand in any AOE and only lose 1-2% of their health per hit.
You do nearly no damage and struggle with the Monsters and the rest of the Party is yawning into their Headsets, while they play FEH, FFBE, AL or Pokemon on their Phones while using just 3-5 Skills while not even really looking at the Game.

It is a Niche Content...made with the goal, that everybody should join the Niche Content Trip.
Look how many people are AFK in that place...playing on their Phone, watching Netflix, reading or posting here or on Reddit. Ebough to create dozens of Posts here complaining about 2/3 of the whole Instance sitting AFK next to the Fate Train.
Why are those Players in Eureka if you can clearly see that all of them do not enjoy it and prefer playing Mobile Games or watch Netflix.
They prefer doing other things while being inside...but still feel like they need to play this Content otherwise they would not play it.

This is exactly what damaged Savage in Stormblood. Turning Niche Content into a thing for everybody.
In ARR raiding was made for a specific Type of Player...those who enjoy playing the Game on a high Level, focusing on DPS, maxing out and give 110%.
Now with SB they Bar was dropped so low, that it feels like absolute entry difficulty...to "Make everybody go raiding.".

The Raiders now feel underchallenged by far, the people who back then did not going for Raids, don't do it now, despite a lowered difficulty Bar. Because the difficulty was not the only reason why they were not into raiding.
They achived nothing by making this Niche Content for everybody.

I am not into Ultimate Raiding...would I like to see the fight at least once? Yes.
Would I want the Devs turning Ultimate from a niche Content into something for everybody...no, because then for me it would lose it's "Niche Content" Status.
You can't be a Niche Content and at the same time being made for everybody.
EA tried that with Dead Space 3, by making it more and more made for the broad Market, while Horror Games themself are a Niche Market...and the damage to the IP was done.
They ecpected impossible Sales Numbers from the Game and the Game itself was just bad compared to the first Game. A Game that was not super creative and inovative, but took the good things of other Horror Games and put them together in a enjoyable Horror Game.

Personally I didn't find Eureka to be that bad of a grind with the exception of Pagos, which SE learned from and made Pyros and Hydatos much more pleasant. Hell Hydatos may have been the easiest of the four regions if you stay out of BA....

I think a few tweaks though could make it much better if they do something similar in ShB.

For starters, make things besides NMs more rewarding. Add some variety to things so that everything doesn't just revolve around chaining mobs until NMs spawn. You chain mobs to farm light, chain mobs to get lockboxes, chain mobs to spawn NMs, chain mobs for challenge log...too much of Eureka comes down to just chaining mobs.

Use the bunny fates as a starting point here. Add a wider variety of fates that spawn throughout the map with different objectives and give them good rewards. Find ways to diversify gameplay so there isn't so much chaining mobs for everything. Maybe add some NMs or FATEs that are chained little min i stories, with one fate leading into another, with some variations isntead of all of them being big bosses.

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Originally Posted by Laphael

And you dont have to kill Trash for 2 Hours in Eureka, you can kill some mobs for challenge log, then do a fate that pops, then do some bunny fates and then leave after 1 hour and still do a dungeon or Raid.

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That's the issue with SB relic tho. You have to spend some time with just in Eureka to complete the relic then do other contents.
In HW, you can do your relic WHILE doing other contents.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

Personally I didn't find Eureka to be that bad of a grind with the exception of Pagos, which SE learned from and made Pyros and Hydatos much more pleasant. Hell Hydatos may have been the easiest of the four regions if you stay out of BA....

I think a few tweaks though could make it much better if they do something similar in ShB.

For starters, make things besides NMs more rewarding. Add some variety to things so that everything doesn't just revolve around chaining mobs until NMs spawn. You chain mobs to farm light, chain mobs to get lockboxes, chain mobs to spawn NMs, chain mobs for challenge log...too much of Eureka comes down to just chaining mobs.

Use the bunny fates as a starting point here. Add a wider variety of fates that spawn throughout the map with different objectives and give them good rewards. Find ways to diversify gameplay so there isn't so much chaining mobs for everything. Maybe add some NMs or FATEs that are chained little min i stories, with one fate leading into another, with some variations isntead of all of them being big bosses.

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Please don't understand this as an aggressive way, okay. :)

How many Minutes did you need to come up with this? 5, 10? Maybe a few Hours of Gameplay?
Why can't the Devs come up with some of those Ideas in 18 Months with hundreds of hours of playtesting by QA Workers?

I like your Ideas and I wished this whole Content would have been more than just "Punch Mobs in the Face till the NM pops up...punch the NM in the face till he drops dead. Move to the next Area and repeat those 2 Steps for hours.", "Punch Mobs in the face for Lootboxes", "Punch Mobs in the face for the Log".

They could have easily put in Dailies Quests inside.
Put in some daily Hunts for the Players.
Searching for Treasure Chests and do some research Quests around the Monsters and the Landscape for Krille, like searching for Crystals or something like that.
Gatherer and Crafter Quests.
And they implemented this First Person View Feature...so they could make a Daily Quest to take Photos of Mobs for the research Workers.

Let the Player pick what they like and get EXP.
Make Photos of the red Slimes in Pagos or the Cows...or anything, with a recommended Level next to it.
The Players could even help each other by doing the Hunts together.

I wanted to like this Content but the Idea of everything geared around "Punching Trash Mobs in the Face" was just utterly boring from my View.
And I do nit dislike "Punching Monsters in the Face", but I want them to do something outside of a random AOE and just Auto Attacks.

I played some grindy MMOs in the past, like Phantasy Star Online so I played some grindy Games, but they were fun, because they were build around the Idea of being Trash Mob Grind. But the Combat of 14 was not build around this Idea and for some reason I fear that the Combat changes with ShB are supposed to make this work on cost of the feeling of Bossfights in this Game.

People are missing that although Blue Mage originates in (the tail end of) Stormblood, it's updates within Shadowbringers will further cement it as a Limited Job.

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Originally Posted by Areic

Lets just word every sentence so we can throw "limited" on it to get a point across.

My warrior is limited, he can't use a dark knight sword.

My mounts are limited, they can't swim underwater

My blacksmith is limited, he can't cook food.

See what I did there?

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Might be impressed if you managed to come up with anything clever.