How does FFXIV fare against other modern MMORPGs?

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Originally Posted by Maeka

The lack of PvP is a huge part of what makes FFXIV great.

PvP breeds all kinds of terrible behavior, just look at WoW's general community. WoW is a game built around PvP, and tries to get its playerbase to split into two factions, and tries its hardest to get them to hate each other, and of course, it works really well. WoW is very toxic and there is actual player hate towards players of opposite faction. I mean, there was that Blizzcon where a person wearing Alliance colors was physically assaulted by a person (or was it multiple people, I forget) wearing Horde colors.

When you have people physically assaulting each other IRL because of something stupid like an imaginary faction in-game, you've crossed the line.

I'd rather not have more PvP here in FFXIV. The fact it's way off to the side and few people care about it is a good thing.

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How is WoW toxic if you don't mind expounding? Clear examples/insight please.

As an avid MMO player and long time WoW player, it's not very toxic at all, unless the only thing you do is LFR, but that's a hilariously isolated content form to paint an entire playerbase with.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

The lack of PvP is a huge part of what makes FFXIV great.

PvP breeds all kinds of terrible behavior, just look at WoW's general community. WoW is a game built around PvP, and tries to get its playerbase to split into two factions, and tries its hardest to get them to hate each other, and of course, it works really well. WoW is very toxic and there is actual player hate towards players of opposite faction. I mean, there was that Blizzcon where a person wearing Alliance colors was physically assaulted by a person (or was it multiple people, I forget) wearing Horde colors.

When you have people physically assaulting each other IRL because of something stupid like an imaginary faction in-game, you've crossed the line.

I'd rather not have more PvP here in FFXIV. The fact it's way off to the side and few people care about it is a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

*nods*

I get that they (the person I quoted) likes PvP and that's fine... but if they like/want PvP, they should try WoW. I bet they'd love it over there if that's what they are seeking.

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I have played WoW for a few years, both PvP and PvE, and I have played FFXIV PvP and PvE. The PvP IS fun in WoW, but the PvE in FF14 is more fun than in WoW (for me at least).
I am a long-time fan of Final Fantasy, and I like almost everything FFXIV has to offer.
I like the way the world looks, I like the outfits in FFXIV, I love just about everything in the gold saucer, I love my house, and I love my fully trained companion chocobo. I love all the references from old FF games.
But sometimes, I just want to have me some good ol' PvP, and I don't want to sub to another game just to pvp in it.
FF14 PvP just doesn't scratch that itch well enough atm. It's just not good enough to scratch that itch.

I can say without a doubt, from experience that PvP in FF14 is actually a little more toxic than it is in WoW.
Here's why I think that is the case:

1. Lack of players makes wait times longer than other content. This means that when people do finally get a pop, and then they start losing, people get more frustrated. Whereas in WoW, if you lose in a battleground, no big deal, you'll get another pop quickly and can try again. FF14? Better get ready to wait for ages for another FLs, in which you'll probably lose again!

2.The 3 teams versing each other, and only one wins. People get more toxic when they are losing. With 1 team vs another team, like in WoW, you get 50% of people losing, whereas with 3 teams versing each other in FF14, you get 66% of the people losing. More players losing means more toxicity. Not only that, but one team can sabotage another team, so they both lose. That's a great way to make a match even more toxic.

3. PvP modes aren't diverse and fun enough. When people are having fun, there's less toxicity. I have seen Eureka pagos get pretty toxic, and that's because the content just isn't that fun and very repetative. Something that FF14 PvP is right now.

If PvP was better, more players would play it. Queue times would fall, people would have more fun, toxicity would decrease.
And besides, if you don't like PvP, just don't play it.
Better PvP in FF14 probably won't impact you very much.
And PvP can actually help with PvE, as PvP has improved my PvE ability. The challenge of it forced me to use keybinds, rather than clicking all my abilities with my mouse like I used to. Not only that, but it's a great way to train your reaction times.

I have seen PvE toxicity bleed into PvP when I was on Odin back in ARR though! The PvP linkshell I was in were doing friendly wolves den matches, and once a dude who did a lot of PvE, and would sell savage runs came along. He wanted to flex his muscles in PvP too. He quickly found out that PvP was a very different beast, and kept losing. He actually tried to pay them off with millions to let him win, and their honor as PvPers made them refuse his offers. He wasn't too happy about that.

Anyway, I met my husband because of FF14 PvP (back in heavensward when PvP was better), so for me, PvP has been an overwhelmingly positive experience :)

I wouldn't consider FF XIV perfect by any means, but after taking a long break and having some time to reflect and experience other things...it's certainly good enough. It's an MMORPG for the modern gamer, plain and simple. I can compare certain aspects to other MMOs, and while other MMOs do some things better, so does FF XIV. There are things I wish they would borrow from other MMOs like WoW (pet battles, transmog system, etc) and I wish they would take more risks, but tbh it's a bit more of a unique experience that even I can't fully explain and/or understand. If people want to play this game in a hardcore manner though they might feel like there's much less to do on a daily/weekly basis. But I've come to accept that the game isn't meant to be played day in and day out. It's much more enjoyable when you don't try to force it.

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Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

How is WoW toxic if you don't mind expounding? Clear examples/insight please.

As an avid MMO player and long time WoW player, it's not very toxic at all, unless the only thing you do is LFR, but that's a hilariously isolated content form to paint an entire playerbase with.

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Here's an example:

Just the other day, family member went to Stormwind City to do the daily Fishing/Cooking quests.

Some guy was /yelling Anti-Semitic remarks over and over and over again.

Or how about all the /spit emotes from opposite-faction players back in the day when accidental flagging was a thing, they would run around us while flagged and we'd go find a safe area to wait for the pest to go away, and they'd start spamming /spit on us because we wouldn't fight them (because yanno we're on a PvE server for a reason).

How about the plethora of times that I've seen wipes happen in LFR ToT and SoO back in MoP when I did those, there'd be a wipe and people would finger-point and argue with each other about who was to blame and then people'd start spamming DPS parses in the chat until people started leaving the raid.

yadda yadda.

EDIT: on the wiping subject.... I've seen lots and lots of wipes in XIV in 8 player content too..... rarely does anybody point fingers. Heck a lot of times nobody says anything, and sometimes people will even politely give pointers... "nobody should stand underneath meteors except for tank... lb3 the tear" etc etc. The only times I've seen toxicity is after 3 wipes then people start sounding a little annoyed.

But in WoW.... back in MoP when I used to LFR back when the rewards were worth doing LFR for, the toxicity in LFR was ridiculous. One Wipe was all it took to get people to lose their crap.

Never played WoW... not once, not ever, never will.

Fortunately for me, when it was released, I was too engrossed in FFXI to bother... and when I heard about the toxicity, the issues, the graphics and their community, I was convinced enough to confirm that I really would never care about WoW.

That said, I do keep a glance on a few MMO games out of sheer curiosity of seeing what their graphics look like. These include God Slayer Online, Black Desert Online, Bless (which my friends in Seoul were able to give me a first hand account about its flop at launch) and Revelation Online.

FFXIV still trounces them all to be honest.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

And yet, the one thing that FFXIV tries to copy FFXI on, is universally hated by everybody, you know, Diadem/Eureka/Pagos?

Apparently FFXI-style content is NOT fun afterall, by most peoples' standards.

Eureka is basically an Abyssea re-hash, and... most people hate it.

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That's because FFXIV's combat is simply not designed with that kind of content in mind. You have to constantly spam skills, which not only gets very tiring really fast, but it also prevents any kind of socialization while grinding.

Since in FFXI you mostly auto-attacked and used abilities once in a while. It gave the opportunity to talk to your party members and make it a very social experience. In FFXIV, trying to talk to your party members while chaining monsters in Eureka risks the chain from being broken, affecting the whole group in the process.

Not to mention that SE keeps trying to include FATEs to everything new they add. From the old relics, to the Diadem and Eureka. It seems like a very inexpensive way to add "content", but at the end of the day, it's just dozens of people hitting an XP/light/atma pinata with not much depth to it. Personally I'd prefer if they got rid of FATEs altogether, but that's just me.

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Originally Posted by Raskbuck

Not to mention that SE keeps trying to include FATEs to everything new they add. From the old relics, to the Diadem and Eureka. It seems like a very inexpensive way to add "content", but at the end of the day, it's just dozens of people hitting an XP/light/atma pinata with not much depth to it. Personally I'd prefer if they got rid of FATEs altogether, but that's just me.

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No difference between "Kill X of Y to get Z to spawn" and "Kill X of Y to get Z FATE to spawn" other than it's marked on the map when it does spawn.

And again as I've said earlier in the thread, if you have time to type away to socialize in a game, then the game is just boringly slow.

And besides, this is 2018. There's a little thing called Discord. Wanna socialize? Make a Eureka Discord channel. Let everybody who wants to chat it up over voice.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

No difference between "Kill X of Y to get Z to spawn" and "Kill X of Y to get Z FATE to spawn" other than it's marked on the map when it does spawn.

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I agree, which is why I think they should try to make the content a little more engaging than that. They create these beautiful areas and just fill them with FATEs because that's literally the only content they know how to do, whether it is in the overworld, the Diadem, Eureka, etc. After doing them for so long, I'm personally getting a bit tired of them.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

And again as I've said earlier in the thread, if you have time to type away to socialize in a game, then the game is just boringly slow.

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And well, that's just your opinion. I'm just pointing out one of the reasons why Eureka's content misses the mark with XIV's gameplay. It's like mixing apples and oranges.

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Originally Posted by Gothicshark

I hate to quote myself, however I need to change my statement here.

I was in ESO Beta, and was there on launch. It was the worst of both worlds, at the time. It had the things I hate in MMOs from WOW and a lack of direction that Skyrim had. After my initial post, I renewed my subscription, and have played it every day this week.

Oh boy, it's good now. Really good. They fixed a lot of the issues I had, and they changed the start of the game to help give focus on a story. It's comparable now to FFXIV and WOW, it sort of sits in between the two and is worth being in the top 4 MMOs. You'all can fight for order and the 4th.

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Interestingly enough, I did the ESO beta too and hated it; never even bothered to get the actual game. My husband recently picked it up however and ever since then has been hounding me to join him. I finally caved tonight when he told me Steam had it, both expansions, and 4 major DLCs all bundled together for 50% off. Since it was a good deal and there's no sub for it I figured I could give it a try again. We'll see if it sticks this time.

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Originally Posted by Rymm

Interestingly enough, I did the ESO beta too and hated it; never even bothered to get the actual game. My husband recently picked it up however and ever since then has been hounding me to join him. I finally caved tonight when he told me Steam had it, both expansions, and 4 major DLCs all bundled together for 50% off. Since it was a good deal and there's no sub for it I figured I could give it a try again. We'll see if it sticks this time.

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ESO is a beautifully crafted world with decent voice acting, so you might enjoy it. The thing that I disliked the most about it is how you had to "animation cancel" to be effective in combat (the way I understand it, it's basically spam-clicking to attack while weaving skills in between them), so for me it got pretty senseless very fast. If that's not a problem for you, though, I hope you enjoy it!