DRKs just falling behind even more.

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Originally Posted by Eliroth-Kaminari

and gained access to reprisal. Where drk lost also Bloodbath but instead gaining lost reprisal from they default kit.
and there is where doom and gloom started.

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Since DRK is the only tank to not have a spammable physical AoE move, it's also the least dependant on Bloodbath. And they have their own much more powerful AoE leech...if only Blood Price wasn't nerfed to the ground :'(

As for Reprisal, at first, I thought it was fair for DRK to share some of its skills, considering everything it picked from GLA and MRD...but now that both PLD and WAR have their own group-mitigation skill on top of Reprisal, it doesn't make much sense, anymore...

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Not worth the 4800 drain IMO.

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If you do a big trash pull and have Salted Earth ticking on lots of targets, you'll quickly have access to Quietus to refill most of your MP, so it's not a big deal. But yes, it's a very specific situation.

Please SE, pretty pretty please, give us back the old MP return of Blood Price :'(

Edited just the last line of my question to better word it, correct some grammar and hopefully provoke a more in depth response based on some community feedback I've seen.

My god the likes. What happens when I go away for work .-.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

If you do a big trash pull and have Salted Earth ticking on lots of targets, you'll quickly have access to Quietus to refill most of your MP, so it's not a big deal. But yes, it's a very specific situation.

Please SE, pretty pretty please, give us back the old MP return of Blood Price :'(

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Popping IR and going rambo with Steel Cyclone or Decimate is much easier and more fun. I'd imagine picking up the shit, popping your shield, putting down salt, blood price, one cast of DADP, and a few Abyssals makes you look like a try hard for menial reward.

Wouldn't be so bad if we could just go Yolo and have DADD + DADP back for our dodge tank status but we lost dark dance so...

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Maybe they should just rework DRK and get rid of combos altogether and just give them hard hitting attacks. SO remove Hard Slash and Siphon Strike and add their potencies and effects to Power Slash and Soul Eater so it looks like it does absurd big damage. But make it cost like triple the TP of a skill and let it make Blood Weapon reduce it to the equivalent TP used for a what would have been a step in the GCD combo line.

So not only do you generate big amounts of Enmity in a Power Slash but you also get a lot of Sustain in Soul Eater. Alongside passive MP restore. Sounds like it would be more fun. TP guzzler but you'd feel like the Black Mage of Tanks of sorts.

So your attacks are doing like 8k-10k but it all evens out because you have no burst. It's all about sustainable DPS. Probably poor idea but it sounds like fun to me.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

Don't forget that DRK sucks at holding aggro, especially in Alliance Raids... seriously they need to rework DRK SO MUCH to where it actually feels like it deserves to be a tank rather than a glorified DPS that wears plate armor and needs to the maiming gear like DRG...

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We have Unmend, Unleash, Provoke, Abyssal Drain, Ultimatum, and Power Slash. If you're having issues holding emnity, throw up Grit and weave in Dark Arts to 2 Power Slash combos. This is the least of our worries. If really am getting tired of the MT, it's trivial to rip emnity from them.

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Originally Posted by Ortheri

I doesn't mean a whole lot but here is an observation that seems kind of telling...

PLD has 29 abilities and 6 traits

WAR has 27 abilities and 5 traits

DRK has 24 abilities and 5 traits.

Don't get me wrong more button mashing (or rather more abilities that we have to DA to be of any use at all) is not what drk needs just thought that mimics the state of DRK IE: To little DPS, Too little Defensive Cool Downs, Too little raid utility.

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The bolded part is the core identity of DRK, we sacrifice our MP for boosts to our abilities. That's where the improvements need to be made, we don't need an overhaul, we don't need more abilities, we need more more compelling differences on the DA toggle.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

Don't forget that DRK sucks at holding aggro,

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First of all, don't anybody believe that. It's not true.

Dude.. you can't expect to hold aggro by never using Grit.

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

What good is 20% of your HP/MP returned to you at the end of the pull?

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You don't have to use it on the last enemy that dies on a pull. Most dungeon pulls have enemies that have significantly less HP than others and even if they don't some enemies will be taking more damage than others due to auto attacks, single target OGCDs and abilities with damage fall off that means enemies start dying before the end of the pull.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Not worth the 4800 drain IMO.

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It's the most efficient use of MP (or second most after TBN depending on how many enemies you are fighting) for damage in all aoe situations. It is objectively worth the MP cost.

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Originally Posted by Rasikko

Dude.. you can't expect to hold aggro by never using Grit.

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probably he means DRK suffer a lot more on holding agro after the first combo on grit compared to the other 2 and turn grit on again its just a personal dps killer.

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Originally Posted by Rasikko

First of all, don't anybody believe that. It's not true.

Dude.. you can't expect to hold aggro by never using Grit.

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He means in comparison to WAR and PLD. Which is true, and has been true even in HW. It was darn near mandatory for DRK to have a NIN in their PT in HW for keeping DPS above a PLD. Otherwise a PLD out DPSed a DRK from how much the DRK used power slash.

EDIT: For clarification, a PLD can use the threat combo in sword oath and lose their MP regeneration for DPSing. A WAR can use their threat combo for a DPS gain occasionally, and when its not a DPS gain, its only a 10 beast guage loss.
DRK loses BOTH the MP gain, AND the blood gain. Even with the changes to threat on moves, DRK is still king of least threat, and WAR with highest threat. (Also why WAR should open, for higher threat gain, and to pass that onto the DRK during vokes.)

EDIT #2: Also, current WAR can tank every fight starting in Deliverance btw, and never switching to defiance. Where as PLD and DRK can't. (There's also no reason for a WAR to do this, with the changes, but it was done in O4S)

Unfortunately, that all is still only part of the disparity.

PLD also has the abilities Circle of Scorn and Shield Swipe that are part of their regular rotation.
WAR, with the changes in 4.2, have Onslaught as part of their optimal burst rotation.

Both PLD and WAR have abilities that provide passive extra agro generation by being part of their standard rotation for doing optimal dps.
DRK has nothing of the sort.

One suggestion that I had in my old DRK rework thread was to make Unleash an OGCD ability like follows.


Unleash - Lvl.6 – Spell
Cast: Instant – Recast: 2s – Cost: 800 MP – Range: 0y – Radius: 5y
Deals unaspected damage to all nearby enemies with a potency of 50.
Additional Effect: Increased Enmity.
MP cost reduced from 1080MP to 800MP. Taken off the GCD.
The focus of these changes was to do two things; first I wanted to provide a stronger identity and purpose to Unleash since Abyssal Drain virtually overwrites it once obtained. Second, these changes make Unleash a good enmity generator that can be woven into the basic flow of GCD combat.

Making Unleash an OGCD that is approximately dps/cost neutral would help provide a "passive" agro generator that would have it's own unique style while addressing some of the other issues with DRK's kit such as redundant abilities and help minimize "from the ground up" reworking for the job.