Warriors need MORE damage

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Originally Posted by shao32

hahah they say WAR is worse and dont offer much that a paladin, thats a good one, o wait.... they are being serious.

WAR is in a good spot now, best damage, best defensive set, and a new shinny shield that can be use to have a new personal magic shield or to help the party every 90 seconds, hey they have to sacrifice one CD to make it better that DV, pse speak the job with most defensive skills with shorter recast.

i have a question, how you feel being a human again fallen op god?.

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yep they are being serious, they will keep moaning until war is back to its "op/playable" status that was 3.0, until then... what is "changing stance will not halves your beast gauge", what is Shake it Off rework for utility? they are nothing, i want muh damageee! moree damage plz.

while DRKs legit complaints are still fallen to deaf ears.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

It's odd that anyone would try to argue that SiO is weaker than DV.

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It is weaker because DV gives a shield to each party member based on the Paladin's HP but SiO is per person HP based, which is a significant difference depending on buffs spent.

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Originally Posted by QuinRaines

It is weaker because DV gives a shield to each party member based on the Paladin's HP but SiO is per person HP based, which is a significant difference depending on buffs spent.

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Lyth already mentioned that SiO CD is shorter than DV, and it benefits from RawI, ToB, Vengeance and even Inner Beast - but you wouldn't see the last one that much.

So, to compare the power of SiO vs. DV, there are 2 very critical factors to look at:
1. Recast time and trigger time
2. Shield amount

1. Pretty simple: 90s vs 120s recast, instant vs 30 duration, triggered by GCD heal (DV can't be triggered by Tetragrammaton and such)

2. We need an example: PLD has ~60k HP, lowest HP pool in party is 1 healer with ~35k.
Note: This scenario actually favors PLD here because in most cases PLD's HP pool isn't that high, nor is a healer's HP that low.
DV will give 6k HP shield to each party member except the PLD.
SiO without any additional CD will give on healer: 2.8k HP shield
SiO with RawI: 4.2k (90 sec CD)
SiO with ToB, Vengeance AND RawI: 7k (120 sec CD cause of ToB and Vengeance recast time)

We've a '2.8k or 4.2k shield on lowest HP target every 90 sec'
OR '7k shield on lowest HP target - for the cost of 3 additional CDs'
vs '6k shield on target ex. PLD, and just after a used GCD heal'.

Imo I prefer SiO esp. for burst phases. Not only it has higher shield value, also it doesn't require a heal. Even with 2 CDs (e.g. ToB + Vengeance) SiO creates a 5.6k on our example healer. Best scenario is O3s right before spellblade holy.

Then again DV is more favored during down time, the reason for this is self-explanatory.

Conclusion: Neither is really 'the best' ability, it's the skill/timing and coordination of the party/tank that makes those abilites strong.

DV is the skill that defines PLD's identity....benefits only the party not himself. Sucks in 3.0 and good now for whatever reasons.

I tend to consider DV as a barrier and SIO as more muscle with the party......both are not strictly needed but I feel safer using them.....

And if SE can rework a skill in middle of patches, why not give Drk a similar but identifiable utilitie? Like spend all remaining mp ( minimum mp required ) to extend TBN to all party: pain and suffering to protect others....

DV never sucked in 3.x, pld just sucked compared to drk.

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Originally Posted by aqskerorokero

DV is the skill that defines PLD's identity....benefits only the party not himself. Sucks in 3.0 and good now for whatever reasons.

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the reason is WAR lost it's combo to place a debuff on the enemy wich reduces all damage by 10% and DRK lost it's combo to place a debuff on the enemy wich reduces INT by 10% (and raid wide damage is mostly magic based and never strenght based). those debuffs with their near 100% possible uptime were simply better than DV. so DV sucked (in comparsion).

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Originally Posted by Jukebox12

Warrior damage is base off off rng https://www.mooglemedia.com/releasin...w-xenosys-vex/ this interview frim xenosys-vex explains why

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I disagree with his opinion on the other tanks, but about WAR he's actually making a lot of sense.

Wars don't need more damage, the other tanks need their damage increased to be on par with the crit damage the War can put out. My PLD is only 3ilvls higher than my War only because the War has Al-M weapon and PLD has plain Lost Al sword-shield. On a 69-70 mob with the slashing debuff berserk and stormseye up and doing a fel cleave it can reach 14k-18k per use. Now that being said I can barely reach 7k-10k with fight or flight+Royal Authority. Now to me if Spirits Within is "suppose" to be based on actual maximum HP instead of just a potency rating with 55k HP it should be critting well over 20k.

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Originally Posted by Niurok

Wars don't need more damage, the other tanks need their damage increased [...] fel cleave [...] can reach 14k-18k per use [...] I can barely reach 7k-10k with fight or flight+Royal Authority. Now to me if Spirits Within is "suppose" to be based on actual maximum HP instead of just a potency rating with 55k HP it should be critting well over 20k.

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Firstly, PLD can very much compete with WAR DMG, especially when slip ups happen. PLD recovers a lot easier than WAR. But seeing how we must assume a vacuum to compare them I'll give you that WAR has the potential to do more DMG than PLD, given that the FCs crit.

Secondly, RA is a combo ender. It is not based on a gauge or anything of the sort like FC is. Why would it ever hit as hard as FC or even close to it?

Thirdly, why should SW hit for more than FC? Strictly going by potency, SW is 300 potency, FC is 500 potency. SW has the potential to do less DMG if you're not full health, but the max potency is 300.

PLD is in a great spot, has great utility and stupid DMG for the amount of utility it has.

War does ENOUGH damage. IF you want to change war, change the distribution of damage, not the quantity so your fight performance isn't based on 20 sec windows Crit/DR RNG. Otherwise leave it alone. Its fine.