Boycotting Dark Knight

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

im confused then haha , but I just hate how much a fav job of mine is getting hate, it could be in a better spot for sure but it isnt like horrible like all these threads are suggesting

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This isn't hate, its love. We love the job that's why we're pointing out how screwed it is, we want it to get attention.

Well at least DRK can still pull hate right. >_>

DRK is viable to baseline clearing content I guess. It just isn't fluid or fun anymore. And that's the problem. If it isn't fun it isn't worth playing as far as I am concerned.

Wasn't that the devs mantra? Make it fun? Or is it on basis of if the devs find it fun instead of the community paying their bills?

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Originally Posted by Shinkyo

Not that it changes the conclusion but you can’t just look at the # of skills to compare their options.
TBN alone is a weaker alternative to intervention, cover and even clemency (i.e. raises your eHP in a different way). Due to the short CD, it can cover scenarios where you’d need multiple skills from other jobs.

For every situation PLD uses cover/intervention/clemency, DRK can use TBN as a weaker alternative.

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Oh for sure yeah I agree with you on TBN being weaker alternatives not to mention Drk still has to be babysat with Living Dead whereas a War and Pld have "safer" ultimates and better CD usage at their disposal as Drk went from the 8 options we had in HW VS to the 6 that we have now. Pld just has like you said, in every situation Cover/Intervention/Clemency and Drk just has TBN and even War who has IB/Equilibrium/Shake it Off, Drk doesn't have those options it just has TBN which is what it revolves around and it's honestly not enough.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

im confused then haha , but I just hate how much a fav job of mine is getting hate, it could be in a better spot for sure but it isnt like horrible like all these threads are suggesting

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It's not hate we're all upset that SE hasn't addressed Drks glaring problems this xpac where Wars have had tons of love and tweaks and Pld is just all around a better Drk with better damage and utility. We want our favorite class to shine, as does everyone including the person that posted about Monks, which is very true, we love Drk and want it to get the attention it deserves.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Wasn't that the devs mantra? Make it fun?

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No, you're thinking of "Make it balanced so we don't have to make a 4th tank."

IDFC what the doomsayers said back in the day, having a 4th tank to potentially open up new synergies and team compositions within which to create balance is 100% preferable to whatever this is.

"Why add a 4th tank when they can't balance the ones they have now?"
"Because they can't balance the ones they have now."

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Well at least DRK can still pull hate right. >_>

DRK is viable to baseline clearing content I guess. It just isn't fluid or fun anymore. And that's the problem. If it isn't fun it isn't worth playing as far as I am concerned.

Wasn't that the devs mantra? Make it fun? Or is it on basis of if the devs find it fun instead of the community paying their bills?

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Fun is subjective. What you may not find fun can be fun for other people.

Very true. I'm having a blast playing drk now compared in HW. Granted, I only play casually.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Wasn't that the devs mantra? Make it fun?

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Not the mantra, but what they supposedly have learned back from 1.0.

http://odinwatch.com/wp-content/uplo...-gdc-panel.jpg

Needless to say, they have long ago ditched that in favor of:"If it isn't fun, it needs more rewards."

Which now begs the question: Will DRK get double clusters in the future?

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Originally Posted by Awful

Oh for sure yeah I agree with you on TBN being weaker alternatives not to mention Drk still has to be babysat with Living Dead whereas a War and Pld have "safer" ultimates and better CD usage at their disposal as Drk went from the 8 options we had in HW VS to the 6 that we have now. Pld just has like you said, in every situation Cover/Intervention/Clemency and Drk just has TBN and even War who has IB/Equilibrium/Shake it Off, Drk doesn't have those options it just has TBN which is what it revolves around and it's honestly not enough.

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Also it needs to be taken into account that TBN costs DRK a decent chunk of it's main resource, MP, which it needs to fuel basic performance in it's other areas such as DPS and aggro generation. It's an often ignored issue that DRK has to burn their main resource just to get their "equivalents" when the other two tanks often just get theirs for free.

I get that resource management is sort of DRK's schtick, but how the usage and reliance of that resource affects balance shouldn't be overlooked. Being married so closely to a single resource results in a great deal of sacrifice, having to give up one thing for another. This by itself is fine and can be really fun when implemented well and tbh I feel fits the concept of DRK, but when you have to sacrifice parts of your performance just to reach a state of being equal (or in DRK's case still falling behind) to the other tanks who don't have to make these sort of sacrifices, that in of itself is imbalance. Sacrificing something should yield more noticeable gains, not result in just barely, maybe if you're lucky keeping up with everyone else.

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

Also it needs to be taken into account that TBN costs DRK a decent chunk of it's main resource, MP, which it needs to fuel basic performance in it's other areas such as DPS and aggro generation. It's an often ignored issue that DRK has to burn their main resource just to get their "equivalents" when the other two tanks often just get theirs for free.

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Agreed, the other classes don't have resource starvation like Drk does it's very noticeable VS Pld and War with their gauges and CDs where if Drk were to use DA + DM and TBN in conjunction that's your resources gone, not to mention Grit STILL costs tons of mana if you factor that in. Aggro generation with no Nin is super noticeable too as they struggle with threat VS War and Pld with their short CDs and tools that Drk wishes they had, not to mention how strong Pld and War DPS CDs are too.

It's honestly sad that Drk falls so short against the other tanks whether it be resource management, DPS, Mitigation, and threat, very unacceptable.