I was a SCH main in ARR and Heavensward (but had all healers 60, though did level my PLD first both times), however in this expansion, while I am levelling my paladin first (though now I know I can Shield Oath at level 30, which by the way thanks SE, that was a really nice change, putting us on a more level pegging with DRK/WAR for levelling roulette, I can use dungeons and roulettes to level it up in the future), I am wanting to level SCH afterwards because the job actions. However seeing what has happened to SCH and healers in general has me considering not bothering with healers at all. I feel as though SE went too far with the SCH nerfs and it has soured my taste of SCH. Sure, it might all change at 70, but reading what people have said WILL naturally influence me.
after the lack of tank we have lack of healers now
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06-23-2017, 07:39 PMPaladinleeds
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06-23-2017, 07:39 PMwinsock
WHM main since ARR.
I've been maining PLD so far in SB. This is mainly because I don't like the WHM changes on paper + thought tank queue times would be better than healer given the ex roulette waits for healers in HW.
My PLD is 70 now and I am currently working on WHM, but I am unimpressed with it. Playing the game as PLD also made me realize how much SE is spoon-feeding the healer role ATM. No more stance dancing. PLD gets some good healing, RDM gets some good healing, multiple classes can remove conditions, etc. I liked the responsibility healers had and that fact that if I screwed up, ppl died. Not happy with the changes. -
06-23-2017, 07:45 PMReynhartBecause they reduced their DPS ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall
If DPS is so much important that reducing it kills your job, why didn't you play DPS from the beginning ? -
06-23-2017, 07:50 PMSerildaThat's a huge oversimplification of the problem. In any case, DPS is only important to healers in the first place because we have so little support capability to work with (hint: WHM's DPS is still decent, yet many WHMs are upset). Nowadays, WHM has less support than the average DPS or tank outside of raw healing alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
I'm levelling a bunch of jobs simultaneously so going incredibly slowly (efficient, I am not), but I'm contributing to the problem by taking my DPS jobs to Party Finder and saving my AST for group activities. Still love healing, though. I'll come back to it full time when the issues are addressed. -
06-23-2017, 07:59 PMRawrzLet's cut the damage of all tank skills in HALF but TRIPLE their enmity. We should see zero complaints from the tanks. Their job got easier! You'll Still continue to try to maximize dps, but you'll only do 30% of a decent dps even at 95th percentile. People are pissed because they are still going to dps, but be rewarded less for it. Same workQuote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
for less ability to carry isn't an attractive job quality. -
06-23-2017, 08:03 PMReynhartAs is the conclusion that Stormblood killed healer jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serilda
Are WHM upset because they lack utility of because their new job mechanic...is not a player mechanic at all since you have no control on how to gain and spend your lilies ?
Besides, if I recall correctly, WHM lost...Stoneskin...so they didn't have that much more utility even back in 3.x.
For me, that's also stupid. If you want to feel rewarded by playing your tank properly, it's by comparing yourself to other tanks. If you're a good tank, you'll still do twice the damage of a bad tank. If you suffer from "Big Number Syndrome", then, for your sake, you should play DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawrz
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06-23-2017, 08:09 PMPaladinleedsHowever, back for msot of 3.x, the WHM's raison d'être was its pure healing throughput. They had that going for them which in progression groups was considered useful. Then they buffed AST out the wazoo (it needed some buffing I admit, but SE went too far), so it matched WHM for potency generally. Then WHM started falling out of favour. This trend has continued in SB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
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06-23-2017, 08:18 PMNeoiceman
Most Healer whining about how less damageoutput they have or that the other healing jobs did a far more supperior job after SB release and i say "suck it, more healing less whining!"
If i go all out i make half the DPS of an Dragoon but thats enough to support my group if i dont need to heal someone. -
06-23-2017, 08:18 PMSerildaThe person whose response you originally responded to was specifically saying SCH is bad right now, and I would say they are correct; it got nerfed in lots of directions at once which made what once worked really well less fun to play. I do think it will be fine with some remedial work as the core design is basically sound, but I'm not surprised if a lot of SCHs are on their SMNs at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
I agree that WHM had been whittled down to barely any support pre-SB too, but making that even worse isn't a positive move. If I had plenty to do in between healing other than mashing Stone/Holy like it was going out of fashion I'd be a very happy person, but don't criticise people for focusing on DPSing when there's legitimately nothing else to do most of the time other than sleeping at the keyboard or fishing for lilies you don't really need. It's a design problem more than a player problem. -
06-23-2017, 08:24 PMwinsockIMO:Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
It's more than that.
On the dps side, SE simplified already simple rotations and removed stance dancing. This makes it difficult to feel 'skilled'. I've tried to make 'skilled' plays other ways. For example, maybe I don't heal someone immediately so that I can utilize a reduced CD from the lily system and continue to dps. But then a PLD or RDM heals the target before my CD is ready...
On the healing side, the healers feel less important. As mentioned, PLD/RDM may heal something messing with a plan you made in advance, but it doesn't stop there. Take esuna as a role skill only to have a non-healer remove a condition. Hit swiftcast for a res only to have a RDM insta-cast, etc.
It just doesn't feel as rewarding to play.