#RIPRDM

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blueyes

For the most part yes, except for Black Mage. According to the new tooltip information, Flare now only scales down to 30% less damage rather than 50%. Thunder IV and Foul have been added while the changes to Blizzard IV allow for more casts of Fire II. I would not be the least bit surprised if Black Mage became the new AoE king. Summoner is harder to judge because their AoE is now entirely focused on ability usage.

---

Fire 2 theoretically wont be in blm rotation more than once if the umbral heart tool tip holds true itll be f3-f2-flare flare Foul in every aoe without convert and a pot and f3 f2 flare x 4 Foul with everyone that does.

But blm took a 20 potency nerf to fire 2 being 80 instead of 100

That 30% DR cap in skeptical of but we'll see if it holds considering a number of tool tips are mistranslated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TorchicEX

I am still concerned of the lack of RDM having a method to recover their MP.

---

I don't think it's going to be a big problem. Lucid dream is a 2 min cooldown which will come up pretty quick if you use it early. Keep in mind up till now many classes havn't had a good way to recover tp if they couldn't cross class invigorate and they did ok. Rdm also has 5 gcd's in their rotation that they're not using MP, and manafication helps those 5 skills come up faster. Brds/mchs can do refresh without losing dps so there's nothing at all stopping them other than a cooldown. And finally, sorry blms, mana shift is a thing now. So I think we'll be surprised at how well our mp manages itself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yorumi

So I think we'll be surprised at how well our mp manages itself.

---

I wish they had like a MP return from using the enchanted skills because we consume the White and Black Mana. But like every caster job has a way to maintain their own MP recovery with their own skills, not relying on others. Their 3 gcd skills (Corps-a-corps and Displacement aren't on gcd thankfully) are quick if enhanced (1.5 seconds for a total of 4.5 seconds) so you don't get much back during it unless their Base MP recovery is high but seeing that their Base MP regen outside of combat is about 864, I don't see it being too high in combat. Manafication does help us save our MP for casting in order to do it but that is like half of what a Summoner gets with Aetherflow (getting their stacks in place of Mana and they also get MP back). Without relying on optional role action skills or others to support us we don't actually have that much to work with for our own skills.

The fact they have both a potent cure as well as a raise make me so happy. I often bring my SMN into new raids just so I can help with the raising to the point that's often all I do on the final boss fights lmao. Having RDM bring that utility along is amazing, even if it makes me a bit bitter that 2/3 of the casters now have battle raises but BLM doesn't. Lore wise it won't add up, but neither does giving Apo to SMNs or gutting the lore aspects of MCH and BRD's refreshes, so there's that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yorumi

sorry blms, mana shift is a thing now. So I think we'll be surprised at how well our mp manages itself.

---

My biggest gripe with that is that you simply assume you're going to get that. Jokingly or not, other dps have their own dps and resources to manage, and imo a mana battery should be used only for healers or tanks (and no, that DRK who wants to dps more doesn't fall under that).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

My biggest gripe with that is that you simply assume you're going to get that. Jokingly or not, other dps have their own dps and resources to manage, and imo a mana battery should be used only for healers or tanks (and no, that DRK who wants to dps more doesn't fall under that).

---

I get that blms arn't going to want to do it but they do have infinite mp and while I could be wrong, I don't think it actually even affects their rotation. I'm certainly not going to be demanding blms dump all their mp to me, I was just pointing out all the ways there are now to get mp back and I didn't even mention ewer which I think is going auto aoe now. I think people are looking at mp/tp management in the 3.x mentality and failing to see how much of a change has been made to the management of resources.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yorumi

I don't think it actually even affects their rotation.

---

Our MP still takes time to recover even under Umbral Ice and we could've used that MP for our own DPS. Does it change our rotation structure? As far as I know, no. But it will shorten our 'filler' time. Again, if it's for heals and raises, I'll happily give it away. But I don't see a reason to give MP if it's your dps vs. mine.
And that's besides the issue of what do you do without an AST or a BLM or a BRD in the party? The class should still be able to sustain itself for a time.

Quote:

---

I think people are looking at mp/tp management in the 3.x mentality and failing to see how much of a change has been made to the management of resources.

---

I feel like you're relying too much on specific party structure as well as the good will of other players, specifically with Mana Shift. I'd sooner say that if things are that bad, it'll be changed before long, but the expansion needs to come out first.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Our MP still takes time to recover even under Umbral Ice and we could've used that MP for our own DPS. Does it change our rotation structure? As far as I know, no. But it will shorten our 'filler' time. Again, if it's for heals and raises, I'll happily give it away. But I don't see a reason to give MP if it's your dps vs. mine.
And that's besides the issue of what do you do without an AST or a BLM or a BRD in the party? The class should still be able to sustain itself for a time.

I feel like you're relying too much on specific party structure as well as the good will of other players, specifically with Mana Shift. I'd sooner say that if things are that bad, it'll be changed before long, but the expansion needs to come out first.

---

As far as the rotation from what I understand the way mp ticks in umbral ice it won't even cause the need for an extra tick. Basically other than the extra button press a blm wouldn't even know the difference that was my point.

As far as specific party structure no. It's like you guys have decided rdm mp management sucks and that's the end of it. Rdm still has lucid dream AND part of their rotation relies on not using mp. Right now in 3.x and since at least 2.0 anyone who wasn't a blm, sch, and maybe ast will eventually run out of their resource. Smns run out of mp, invigorate can't keep up with tp classes indefinitely and some don't even have it, tanks have a max tp sustain etc. Basically as it stands now you either relied on a brd/mch or ending the encounter before resources were exhausted. So for argument sake lets say lucid dream can't sustain a rdm indefinitely. So? How is that any little bit different from the way the game works now for all classes except blm and sch? The difference now, that I was pointing out is 4 classes instead of 2 have a way of increasing mp sustain. Before the two classes that had it didn't want to use it cause it meant a dps loss which it doesn't now.

edit: I should say pre-3.0 the only way to get more mp was from a brd, one class. 3.0 added mch mimicking brd and ast who had ewer but didn't want to use it, again dps loss.

I never said RDM has to go on indefinitely. BLM is about the only class who can do that, and even that's not at full power 100% of the time. But there's that, and there's running dry within your first optimal rotation, which is what people are worried about. A legitimate concern seeing how it's a new class, I think. Personally, I'm not too worried about RDM, between early patches tweaking such things if they exist and what you said about Lucid Dream and melee. I dare say RDM might just be why casters even have Lucid Dream in the first place. Most likely it's by design - BLMs have Umbral Ice; SMNs have Aetherflows; RDMs have Lucid Dream, which actually ties in with the lore as they draw from White Magic and at least in its past incarnation was originally a Conjurer skill (Shroud of the Saints). But as it's been changed into a role skill, the can't just give RDM that, especially not after taking it from WHM itself.

On a more general note, the beautiful thing is that this job fits my chara's lore, too, so it'll be all the more fun for me to play :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

I never said RDM has to go on indefinitely. BLM is about the only class who can do that, and even that's not at full power 100% of the time. But there's that, and there's running dry within your first optimal rotation, which is what people are worried about. A legitimate concern seeing how it's a new class, I think.

---

That's not even remotely a legitimate concern. No one in their right mind would believe rdm goes into testing, and somehow the testers miss the fact that rdm lasts 30 seconds and is out of mp and has to just stand there. It's obviously at a bare minimum going to have an uptime similar to smn or a melee dps. That was my point from the beginning, there's a baseline sustain the class will have, and then there are a bunch of things being added on top of all that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yorumi

AOE was pretty heavily nerfed across all classes. Almost everything has fall off now, including bane.

---

SO MUCH AOE NERF!!! I HATTTEE THIS FALL OFF CONCEPT THEY ARE DOING. #RIPBane