Healers that don't want to DPS are like DPSes who refuse to move out of AoEs.

You play your job how you want to play and others will play how they want to play. Focus on what you're doing and not what others are, if you want to tell others how you think they should play, become a mentor and yell at them in the mentor dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Xerek

I have several friends that have recently joined the game as healers, and hearing this attitude (all over, not just here), has them nervous as hell. I tell them their job is to heal. The rest is gravy. Swap into Cleric Stance when comfortable, if just to cast one DPS. Over time you get more comfortable and push it, weaving another in and so on. It's a bonus. Healing is a reactive job, and when you're in Cleric Stance you can't immediately react.

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Yes, it's good advice to start it slow, even to only swap in CS to cast a single DPS spell and then back, when you're starting out and practicing. One step at a time.

But I'd like to note that healing in this game is not reactive at all, in fact since incoming damage is mostly completely scripted, playing a healer is about knowing the fights and preparing for upcoming damage with shields, topping people up when required and pre-casting heals so that they'll hit right when the big tank busters or AoE hits land. That's also the key to healer DPS: knowing when you'll have time to do DPS and also creating windows for it.

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Originally Posted by Blazinhart

I'm só tired of this "crucifying healers" kind of thread that even I being a healer who dps whenever I can, is making me wanna quit healing and I wish, hope, pray, that when SB is released, the number of healers go to almost none, that boring hardcore people who think that even the producer of the game is wrong and should follow their point of view, will stop complaining about healers.

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I have leveled and have geared whm but I rarely play it cause of this stuff, I don't mind "casually" dpsing as a whm but not going to go full force cause I could just stay on my main class that a dps and do that.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

Did you ever stop to think that current content tuning may have been in large part due to the mentality and Healer DPS meta created by people like you who think its irrelevant to bring DPS food to increase DPS or even dodge AOES cuz that may alienate their ability to dps for a few seconds but at the same time think its relevant for healers to DPS.

Every single time one of these thread comes up the argument seems solely based on dungeon content. Oh look you brought up a dungeon scenario. Ok I'm sorry the healer didn't shave off 5 minutes of your run time. Its 5 minutes of your life you can't get back. I'm really sorry for you that your playing a game you enjoy so much that you cant stand a healer not saving you 5 minutes.

I've about lost it with these millennials and their ways. You want efficiency but at the same time don't even care if you are a part of the problem.

At some point you got to ask yourself do you even enjoy this game anymore or are you going to pick it apart, dissect it and find everything that you think is wrong or someone else is doing wrong even though at the end of the day you still beat the dungeon/raid. I don't get you ppl anymore.

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Yes, because 53 Crit has any impact on current dungeons. Either you do not realize how little that actually contributes to overall output or you're being deliberately obtuse. Food has nothing to do with healer DPS nor does it in anyway influence tuning. Healing potency is absurdly high and we outgear the vast majority of content at release. Content is tuned this way to make it accessible to even the lowest common denominator. Every single person using food isn't going to amount to even a fraction of a healer utilizing their DPS abilities. Not to mention, you continuously ignore the actual criticism. Only one role in this game can literally stand around doing nothing and it's considered acceptable by a portion of the community. And for what's it worth, I dodge just fine. Do not presume how I play the game because I dislike people who are lazy.

This applies to every level of content. Even Savage doesn't hit hard enough to warrant constant healing unless one of the healers attempts to solo. You will always have ample opportunity to DPS in any fight in this entire game. Now I do want to clarify, I, in no way, expect progression players to be optimizing. You are learning. That is a perfectly reasonable excuse to focus on your main job. Tanks typically stay in tank stance until they know the fight better.

Spare me your millennial crap. For one, they aren't my generation. Second, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the subject at hand. You keep trying to equate two scenarios that are neither comparable nor even consistent. Let's try this once more. If we apply your food standard to every piece of content, healers will also be expected to follow it. Therefore, your argument has no basis because healers wouldn't be exempted.

Perhaps you don't "get us people" because you ignore the actual argument. You continuous bring up wholly irrelevant comparisons and insinuate we only want perfection when we actually want effort. Why should 3/6 other players be expected to utilize everything in their arsenal while two get to hide under some nebulous excuse?

Tanks: Maintain aggro; DPS; rotate cooldowns
DPS: Deal damge; dodge avoidable damage; use support abilities
Healers: Heal; DPS... but only if you feel like it

One thing is not like the others.

I will take a healer who DPSs without Cleric or panics out of it quickly because they are putting forth an effort and I wish to encourage it. The healers I take issue with are those who refuse to DPS out of some silly principle.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Spare me your millennial crap. For one, they aren't my generation.

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Sorry to go off track but how old are you/what generation are you? My age probably be dumped in as a millennial which I reject, cause I find people 10 years younger then me to have completely different view of the world. Cause apparently anyone born from early 80s-2000s is considered a millennial. I just like to see what people think cause the term millennial has turned more from a generational thing to just how a certain group of people act. Ok back to your originally schedule thread.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Sorry to go off track but how old are you/what generation are you? My age probably be dumped in as a millennial which I reject, cause I find people 10 years younger then me to have completely different view of the world. Cause apparently anyone born from early 80s-2000s is considered a millennial. I just like to see what people think cause the term millennial has turned more from a generational thing to just how a certain group of people act. Ok back to your originally schedule thread.

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I usually attribute the millennial age to 90s, but I'm 29 myself. May be in the same boat as you lol

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Originally Posted by Atos

Numbers please. Methinks when you say "casually DPSing" you mean "all-out DPSing", which would use a lot of MP you'd otherwise want for healing. and that the DPS that you're comparing the healer to aren't very good.

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Until SE changes its policy on parsing and discussing the results, I'll have to direct you to "The Site That Shall Not Be Named" to find the numbers yourself. Google:"Final Fantasy Logs" and you'll find it easily, then look up the statistics for endgame dungeons (since we're talking casual content) from the menu on the upper left.
The relevant numbers are: 40th percentile for the healer, 50th percentile for DPS comparison point 1 and 90th percentile for DPS comparison point 2. Play around a bit, look at the averages, the numbers for individual dungeons and feel free to calculate it a couple times. The pattern is almost always the same. You can also find the logs themselves to see how many people died to achieve those numbers.

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Originally Posted by Kit-Kat

Dungeons in this game aren't run for fun. Maybe your first time, your second time? for exploration. But when you run them over and over again, you want those to be done asap so you can just into next farm. Even if it just makes a run be minutes shorter, it adds up.
I personally hate dpsing as a healer, yet I do it for the sake of effectiveness.

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I'm sorry if I'm wrong, but this reads like you are so obsessed with the rewards that you are doing things you don't enjoy. Maybe you should re-evaluate why you play this game.

Honestly, it seems like some players forget that there is another person on the other side of each character in their party, some with different backgrounds and experiences than themselves. Sure in may be your 1000th time running a particular piece of content, but it may only be their 1st or 2nd.

I'm always torn whenever I participate in this debate: on the one hand, I completely acknowledge that with the way healing is tuned currently, healers at the pinnacle of their skill are the ones who are dishing out no small amount of damage while still meeting healing and mitigation requirements. On the other hand, I dislike how much precedence this has taken over the actual healing role, and I sympathize with players who start out really enjoying XIV's healing classes only to wind up feeling a bit duped when they finally begin to do most endgame content and realize that a significant portion of it revolves around basically turning OFF your healing and spamming the same 4-5 buttons over and over.

I'm pleased to see that the dev team has finally acknowledged the debate either way, though. Even if YoshiP's statement DIDN'T align woth my current feelings, it would at least let me know that nothing was going to change and let me move on to a different game, lol. Maybe no big changes will come with Stormblood too, but it's made me cautiously optimistic that we might see some better healing design at 70 cap.

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Originally Posted by Seniade

I'm sorry if I'm wrong, but this reads like you are so obsessed with the rewards that you are doing things you don't enjoy. Maybe you should re-evaluate why you play this game.

Honestly, it seems like some players forget that there is another person on the other side of each character in their party, some with different backgrounds and experiences than themselves. Sure in may be your 1000th time running a particular piece of content, but it may only be their 1st or 2nd.

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It's not a secret. I'm not obsessed, I'm burnt out. And yes, doing things I don't really enjoy in order to other things I do enjoy, because I have to. And like I said, I do enjoy new dungeons but maybe the first couple of runs are 'fun' on new dungeons but then they grow old pretty fast, just something we have to run. I'm even a content completionist, specially with Triple Triad (game I love) yet I still have cards to get from lv60 dungeons after I ran them countless time because I'm so burnt out on trying constantly. Like I said in my previous post, I do aknowledge that it might be people's first runs, with newbies and I totally respect that, but you can't say a maxed out healer or whatever role with somewhat updated gear is doing that dungeon for the first time.
This is something that would need a discussion aswell, and I guess it's a different point of view, but people here tend to be really selfish in the matter of content. Like "I'm playing a healer, the way I want, be it dpsing or not so fuck the rest of the party" kind of things. This is why we're often compared to Japanese community and the general view of a NA/EU player is seen as a casual "noob" that will need to be spoonfed. Remember that you're not always playing alone, think of the collective other than just yourself, you're playing/it's called a MMO for a reason.