How PL'ing killed FFXIV.

Grinding isn't content.

Please edit your OP with actual positive suggestions along the lines of "incentives for players to enjoy a variety of the content" instead of just saying "bluh PLing ruins the game".

PLing is an opt-in situation, nobody -likes- mindlessly grinding, grinding isn't something to do or a reason to keep playing the game.

The reason to keep playing, between now and 2.0, is for the content that'll only be available before 2.0, and to be part of the game as it develops into 2.0. Honestly, I'd tell your friends to wait until 2.0 and pick the game up then, there's no shame in that. Subscriptions literally don't matter between now and 2.0; I just want to be in a good place once 2.0 hits such that I'll actually be able to do all the content immediately, and I'm interested in the pre-2.0 experience, even if there's not much to do at endgame yet.

Honesty, I still fail to see why some people get so bent out of shape based strictly upon how other people play the game.

Maybe it's because I grew up.

I was hoping this thread was going to highlight how power leveling screws those who don't want to be power leveled.

Ever since 1.19 I can't tell you how many times some punks have come in on my low level camp and started claim stealing all the mobs my level equivalent party was fighting.

One time they even blamed me for putting the very few mobs I was able to handle near their AoE's.

The quote: wtf ??? i'm not PLing you!!

I'm fine with power leveling. I'm not okay with stealing exp mobs from a party that's trying to play the game as intended. With materia being formed the way that it is and power leveling being as easy as it is, this is becoming too common for my tastes.

Funny thing is I'm more okay with a low level character being leveled in a high level area leveling ungodly fast than I am with a high level character stealing all the mobs in a low level area so that it slows down the character growth of the person who's probably not even there anyways. It screws those who have the restraint to play the game at a slower pace and want to enjoy the intricacies of the climb up to 50.

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Originally Posted by Teakwood

Grinding isn't content.

Please edit your OP with actual positive suggestions along the lines of "incentives for players to enjoy a variety of the content" instead of just saying "bluh PLing ruins the game".

PLing is an opt-in situation, nobody -likes- mindlessly grinding, grinding isn't something to do or a reason to keep playing the game.

The reason to keep playing, between now and 2.0, is for the content that'll only be available before 2.0, and to be part of the game as it develops into 2.0. Honestly, I'd tell your friends to wait until 2.0 and pick the game up then, there's no shame in that. Subscriptions literally don't matter between now and 2.0; I just want to be in a good place once 2.0 hits such that I'll actually be able to do all the content immediately, and I'm interested in the pre-2.0 experience, even if there's not much to do at endgame yet.

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Why do people keep thinking it's not? level is part of any MMO endgame is just something for you to do and hope for once you reach the end so please stop thinking level is not part of games if that was true then all mmo would not even have levels.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

This is true in all MMOs and why they incorporate a grind. MMOs these days are designing content to be short lived yet dumping a ton of copy/pasted content, i.e yes MMO A has 12,800 quests, but can you say with absolutely certainty they're all unique quests? No repeats?

This is exactly why developers do it and why they're getting better at just hiding the fact x content is a grind, because they make it such an easy grind you don't count it as much, much like people didn't think Guild Marks were a timesink because they're fairly easy to acquire.

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When you think about the time it takes to create a Final Fantasy XII, for example, it requires years of development and yet the completion time for players can be measured in hours.

The issue MMOs face is the impossibility of creating a compelling story to keep you entertained for years at a time. It has to fill out the time with repetitive tasks (be it a grind, quests, instanced content) with addictive qualities to keep you at it in order to prolong the experience. Or, it has to offer content that has high replay value that you can't get anywhere else, such as tournament play, that you'd be willing to pay a subscription for. And above all, it has to keep the challenges coming, because without anything new to work towards, people will get bored and leave.

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Originally Posted by Rhomagus

I don't agree.

I'm fine with people who want to shoot their way to the top.

Competition in NM claims is fine but using "survival of the fittest" to justify stealing low level experience mobs from players at that level is ethically dubious.

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A wise man once told me.. and I hope you take it to heart...

Win if you can,
Lose if you must,
ALWAYS CHEAT!!

Sorry to tell you but life isn't fair, and MMO's shouldn't be either. It is an open world, shared by multiple players. If somebody is nice enough to see what you are doing and move on out of respect, or as you say "Ethics", then good for them. If not, well, bummer dude.. They have just as much right to any content in the world as you do regardless of level or task. If they want to farm mobs for drops then they should be able to do so. If they want to farm mobs for XP to power-level lower level toons, then they should be able to.

Ethically dubious??? Perhaps you have forgotten that this is a game.. You want to see ethically dubious, maybe you should spend 20+ years working various jobs building up a career.. I guarantee you will see "ethically dubious" behavior, at the LEAST, and downright illegal behavior at the worst..

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

Why do people keep thinking it's not? level is part of any MMO endgame is just something for you to do and hope for once you reach the end so please stop thinking level is not part of games if that was true then all mmo would not even have levels.

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right, they are slowly taking grinds away cause of people who think there shouldn't be grinds. but all your left with then is a offline game you pay monthly for. in fact it's a far worse version cause you have worse content, worse graphics, and story is usually better offline games too. your paying your monthly in the same way you would a rmt, they are just handing you everything so you just pay them and they thank you.

0 grind = it's not a mmo, that's like paying a monthly charge for a dvr cause it can record while you watch other stuff. ...get this our old vcr's prior to there creation already did that they just took that option out threw removing the tuners on them. then rewraped it to you again with a monthly. your welcome. lol

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Originally Posted by Mishakai

A wise man once told me.. and I hope you take it to heart...

Win if you can,
Lose if you must,
ALWAYS CHEAT!!

Sorry to tell you but life isn't fair, and MMO's shouldn't be either. It is an open world, shared by multiple players. If somebody is nice enough to see what you are doing and move on out of respect, or as you say "Ethics", then good for them. If not, well, bummer dude.. They have just as much right to any content in the world as you do regardless of level or task. If they want to farm mobs for drops then they should be able to do so. If they want to farm mobs for XP to power-level lower level toons, then they should be able to.

Ethically dubious??? Perhaps you have forgotten that this is a game.. You want to see ethically dubious, maybe you should spend 20+ years working various jobs building up a career.. I guarantee you will see "ethically dubious" behavior, at the LEAST, and downright illegal behavior at the worst..

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Okay. I'm going to disregard your blatant ignorance as to my personal life. That holds no sway here. I'm very keen to the real world and I'm also aware that ethics exist in it. My complaints come from the very fact that this is a game and not real life. I suggest you make the same distinction. End of that discussion.

I already mentioned an alternative for people that want the intended outcome (PL'ing) without the residual blowback (Mob stealing of suggested levels)

This is a game, yes. This is a game meant for multiple players, yes. You don't have to incorporate play mechanics that can be used to intentionally grief people when there is a completely different method to provide the same outcome.

It's what we call in the real world "a rational alternative".

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Originally Posted by Rhomagus

That's without your mentions of hacking the client, which is a whole different can of nonsense if you're suggesting that SE should make an environment where that is expected in order to be competitive.

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They did, it's called FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Mishakai

They did, it's called FFXI.

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They will also outright ban you if they catch you doing so, not to mention that SE should learn from their faulty design choices instead of exacerbating them in their new MMO. To suggest that it's an intended mechanic to hack the client as a legitimate game mechanic is disingenuous. I'm done here.