A proposed solution for having players become better players.

I do like the proposal, however I see some issues with it.

For example last night I ran on my smn weeping city, and all I did was raising healers/tanks/dps that stood in everything, as well as having to raise other alliances since they completely wiped. I don't mind doing it, if it helps the healers to keep most of us alive. However and weeping city is not the only example, daily trials and dungeons are the same most of the time.
I probably ended up with 2% dps since I was busy helping the healers. In that case, the system would not count my actual team work (raise) as a smn ability, and just sees the 2% dps that i dealt, for whatever reason.

Now I see multiple issues with that, because the moment we get a system like that in place, trust me people like me not gonna be all about team work. I make sure that I get my dps numbers at the end of the run, and even so it's not raid content, I still don't like to be at the bottom of the list. A lot of people see it that way, meaning that in cases like this, we will support a selfish behavior or solo play style, instead of actual team play/work.

This is the best idea I've heard in forever. No judgmental nonsense, rewarding effort, encouraging improvements. Its an amazing idea.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

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On paper that seems great. I just don't think it would do what you would expect, or even play out how you would expect.

Let me ask you this, based on your text only, not what you have in mind. If this was to be implemented, as is, right now, at face value, do you think it would make people put more of an effort in? I personally don't believe it would. Inquisitive people might be lured in, but you need to find a way to lure in more than just them. As it stands its just "free stuff" for players that already know how to perform well.

The text prompt help text or w/e would be a great addition to the idea though, same with the "check" as to not encourage DPS classes to stand in bad, to top deeps for the bonus.

I just think there is a lot more to be considered before this could be a "functioning as intended" system.

If you want to pitch this, some of those things need to be hammered out, or the alternative... handed off as is and interpreted how Square sees fit, which may not be inline with what you had in mind or even be considered for that matter. I wouldn't get discouraged by negative feedback though. Read it through, wade through the crap and try to pick out the gripes and see if you can't address it.

I think it would have to start with advanced technique challenge scenarios that would push people to expand their play style process. Right now, it's too open and personal so people don't even want to try or will spend too much effort 'gaming' the system.

That being said...a stat tracker at the completion of levels wouldn't hurt

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Originally Posted by PeachPapaya

I'm curious about any hard numbers about how much contribution DPSing as a healer does, most game communities shame healer for anytype of DM. In TF2 the medic literally has the second highest dps weapon in the game, but then it's hard to use and ends up with the medic dying.

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At the highest end 1000-1200. FFlogs should be taken with a grain of salt because the top tier players like to cheat their scores. Really you should look at the 70th to 80th percentile for realistic numbers to expect from players who are making a real effort. Either way, healing + dps is going to result in a lower number regardless. I don't know that there's a good way to test both at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Imoen

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I think it would work to an extent. There are some people who you cannot help, people who don't want to be helped, etc. This isn't for them. It's for people who can actually be enticed to do a bit more than the minimum.

As for working out the kinks in the system, sure. I made sure to say in my original post that metrics and such can be adjusted to make the system work as intended rather than work as originally written. A poster above mentioned worrying about raising people as a SMN counting against his contribution. That's a good point, and utility abilities like that should be factored into your contribution toward the party.

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Originally Posted by Bixillarla

No thank you. I main healer and am there to heal not DPS. My role is to keep people alive not to deal damage. SE has said that the content is designed so healer DPS is not calculated into the fights why would they add DPS into any bonus calculation?

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Healers DPS is needed for every content, cause more DPS = quickest kills/dps check. It's not a matter of being necessary/mandatory or not, you're just a bad healer if you're not DPSing. It's like having two hands but using just one of them all the time.
It's almost the same thing for DPS when it comes to stuff such Second Wind, Rend Mind, Dragon Kick ect., with the only difference than healers DPS does affect progression a lot.

I disagree that it makes you a bad healer. Not being able to keep the group alive makes you a bad healer. If someone feels that's wrong, report them. See if SE takes action against them.

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Originally Posted by Aylis

A lot of it too is people in general really need to come up with some kinda standard expectation when it comes to healer's doing DPS.

Join Group A) Do my normal buffs and stuff. Dungeon starts, everyone is good and not in any danger of death, its safe to start DPS. I do and promptly get screamed at for DPS'ing and not healing...even if um, no one needs healing.

Join Group B) Um, okay so no one seems to want a healer DPS'ing so I'll just sit and do nothing but heal this time. Dungeon starts, everyone is okay...I get screamed at for not DPS'ing. \._./

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Everyone except bad healers who don't want healers to DPS want healers to DPS.
Unless your DPS causes the team to die because you couldn't heal (so just be mindful of timing).

Please, for the love of all that is /ac Holy, DPS if at all possible. It's the difference between a mediocre healer and an awesome one.

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Originally Posted by Mattelot

I disagree that it makes you a bad healer. Not being able to keep the group alive makes you a bad healer. If someone feels that's wrong, report them. See if SE takes action against them.

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It makes you a bad healer. Just accept that you're bad and be okay with it.