So Specialist Recipees are in the game.

i think the main "issue" crafters have with the specialization skills is that, they are just "ok" but they are not "great". at the moment, no crafter will be removing a cross skill from another craft because he has acess to the specializations skills, wich supposely was the reason those skills were created for, example, to remove the need for a weaver to have goldsmith to 50 for innovation, because as a specialist they can use innovative touch. (i keep having issues with that one cuss i keep forgetting i will actually cost the 10 durability for the buff ><; too used to innovation, not mentioning that hte skill sucess rate of 40% is just... a inducer of crying or intense prayer fr sucess).

I have never usen innovative touch, only whistle satisfaction, heart skills (if I feel lucky) and the skill which restores durability, so no they don't replace cross class abilities, specialist just adds new skills to your rotation.

People in this thread doest understand economics or free markets. All theses pro specialist people just want less competition and put the buyer in a strangle hold. The market boards are fine and people are buying stuff all the time. Check the buy history ffs. Some item don't move as fast as others that's apart of the economy. So the nobody is buying stuff lie needs to die.

They did not even fix the specialists skills. Which is very non casual and not very intuitive. It boggle my mind people think this is casual friendly let alone get more people to craft. All this going to do is have the crafter with alts have the edge or everyone else from omni crafters to the casual crafters. Cause they can have all the specialists at once while the rest of the crafters that put forth the EFFORT to git gud (great) at crafting gets gut punch cause lazy people looking at omni crafters and want the same benefits but not put in the same effort while barring these very dedicated crafters at the same time.

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

I have never usen innovative touch, only whistle satisfaction, heart skills (if I feel lucky) and the skill which restores durability, so no they don't replace cross class abilities, specialist just adds new skills to your rotation.

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exactly, in the state they are now, their just "extra" skills.
their creation objective wich was removing the need of cross skills/leveling other crafts, was not fullfilled, i would say that more than angry/hate at teh skills, the crafters were disapointed with them.
they were supposed to be replacement skills for their counterpart skill that is native to a certain craft. but noone in their right mind will replace innovation in their rotation with a skill that has only 40% sucess rate, unless they love playing with the god of rng. you wont be replacing byregot's blessing 100% of the time with byregot's myracle, for example.

Not every server is loaded with crafters. Some do not have many at all. All this does is punish those servers without enough to make specialists a viable economic move.

We won't have an economy of 5-10 omnicrafters. We'll have 2-3 specialists in each class competing. That's it. Specialist recipes are the second-worst idea I've seen for 'reducing omnicrafting'. And even that's only by a fraction. There have been lots of people suggesting good and interesting ways. They all involve fixing specialists so that a new crafter doesn't need to master all classes. Specialists? It's just desynth V2. Remember Desynth? Remember how bad it is? Specialist recipes are that squared, because you still need to get all the crafting classes up for cross-class skills.

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Originally Posted by Ranzan

So the nobody is buying stuff lie needs to die..

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I don't think anyone is saying that... They're saying crafters aren't buying stuff.

Why would anyone who crafts opt to buy something from someone else, when they themselves can likely make it for a fraction of the price? They wont, and they didn't.

If gear is worth buying again, then this would only increase the number of people who are buying, because all the omnicrafters (myself included) who can currently make everything would no longer be able to do so, we'd have to rely on others to obtain certain items. More people buying is only a good thing for the games economy. Less supply would probably be a concern if I didn't think this game already had too much... The i180 stuff has very little supply, but that's because of the rarity of materials (and worthlessness of the gear itself) more than anything, perhaps your server was different, but I remember stuff during the 2.0 cycle being routinely overstocked...

2.0, I would say, had high supply and low demand. High supply was a result of everyone being able to make everything. Low demand was a result of the same thing; I'm not going to be adding to demand when I can produce everything myself. Specialist recipes corrects this. It lowers supply while raising demand.

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Originally Posted by Joronas

Not every server is loaded with crafters. Some do not have many at all. All this does is punish those servers without enough to make specialists a viable economic move.

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That's why I have an issue with Specialist skills. They were meant to make it easier to get into crafting, but they haven't done that at all. SE really needs to address that, since it would hopefully get more people into crafting... The main hurdle with crafting at the moment is that you need all eight leveled to really do anything with one of them, if Specialist skills corrected that like they were said to pre-launch, I'd imagine more people would get into crafting.

There is also potential for a general shift in gear to push more people into crafting... With crafted gear being stronger in 3.2, along with materia being even more desired with the ability to meld to tomestone/raid gear (plus Diadem seems to be making it possible to actually Spiritbond towards tier V materia), people are perhaps more likely turn to crafting to make Gil. Certainly most people I know who don't craft (yet loved crafting in XI) don't do so because Gil is fairly meaningless in this game, with there being nothing really to buy...

Specialist recipes won't make crafters buy things, and won't restart anything in the economy. USEFUL recipes (for glamour or otherwise) will restart the economy. The lack of anything worth purchasing and the insane costs associated with scrip mats are what killed the economy. Not omnicrafting. Omnicrafting is why there is still a trickle of activity.

A little critical thinking and analysis should show that fairly well.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

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Low supply doesn't necessarily mean high demand. I mean in you own post for example the 2 star crafting gear is in both low supply and low demand cause of tomes armor.

Also omni crafters rely on gatherers so yes they do buy off people all the time. It may not be on the market board but they do buy from people myself included. If this is one of the main arguments on omni crafter there is your answer there.

Also is I'm interpreting in your post that specialist will help the economy buy having people needing specialists only mats? You that would hurt the economy(buyers mostly) right? Because the crafters' cosy to make has skyrocketed from being unable to cut cost and he has to turn a profit so 0rices will go up.

And the FFXI crafting was good for 2 big reasons:

1. Can have multiple alts on one account like this game but unlike this game you can trade between with waaaaaay less hassle.

2. The main reason why the economy was good on there for crafter compared to here was there were no welfare armor (tomes gear) on that game. So their was no handout on gear so the server as a whole had to work in that economy. Those crafting changes in 3.2 are really for min/maxer cause you best believe there will be more tomes gear.

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Originally Posted by Joronas

Specialist recipes won't make crafters buy things, and won't restart anything in the economy.

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How exactly will crafters be obtaining the recipes locked behind Specialists they don't have, then?

If I pick Weaver, Leatherworker, and Goldsmithing as my Specialists, I cannot make for myself, Carpenter, Blacksmith, Armorer, Alchemist or Culinarian Specialist items. I will either have to rely on someone else to make them for me, or I will have to buy them. Right now, however, if I want something made by Carpenter, Blacksmith, Armorer, Goldsmithing, Leatherworker, Weaver, Alchemist or Culinarian, I'll bloody well make it myself for a fraction of the cost.

Specialist recipes will have more people buying things. Yes those things need to actually be worth a damn as well, but we've already been told 3.2 crafted gear will be stronger, and 3.1 is adding new crafted gear... Either that'll be i180 like the current worthless stuff, or it will potentially be useful as gear... Even if it isn't we've out right been told it'll be useful for tier V materia farming, and with the materia changes in 3.2, that's a pretty solid use for the stuff anyway...

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Originally Posted by Ranzan

Also omni crafters rely on gatherers so yes they do buy off people all the time. It may not be on the market board but they do buy from people myself included. If this is one of the main arguments on omni crafter there is your answer there.

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Show me the omnicrafters who purchased Wootz/Arachne/etc. gear instead of making it themselves for a fraction of the cost, or keep walking.

Do you know what has pretty much consistently been the best market in this game? Selling crafting gear. Why do you think that is? I'm sure there are some omnicrafters who just want to speed up the process to get the gear, but I assure you, the vast majority are crafters who simply cannot make the gear, because they've only leveled Culinarian or something. Essentially the same deal Specialist recipes forces, and that is perhaps the real issue here... Omnicrafters don't like that they're being forced into this, and I actually kind of agree, I've already said earlier in the thread that I think a better system would be to just have Specialists boost your crafting stats, so Specialists can instantly make new high Craft/Control recipes, while omnicrafters have to work on reaching those new tiers. That said, I still fully agree with the general concept behind Specialist recipes.

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Originally Posted by Ranzan

Also is I'm interpreting in your post that specialist will help the economy buy having people needing specialists only mats? You that would hurt the economy(buyers mostly) right? Because the crafters' cosy to make has skyrocketed from being unable to cut cost and he has to turn a profit so 0rices will go up.

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Actually... That's one of the things I was against when Specialist recipes were initial announced, pretty much for that reasons. Materials should be readily available, and non-crafters should have a solid means to obtain them to earn Gil (where as 2.# kinda went too far with this and dungeons, overdoing the supply and then some...), which is why I'm actually a fan of the increased material load on Heavensward recipes, Hippo skins were never particularly profitable to farm, but all the skins from Heavensward? There's potential there for non-crafters to make serious cash with some effort...

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Originally Posted by Felis

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Originally Posted by Gyson

It's like someone on the development team had a moment of insanity and said "Hey, that desynthesis setup went over well with the players, right? Let's do more of that!" and then got this inane idea for a specialist system.

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You don't level up specialization, like desynthese.
One scroll and you are ready.

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You completely missed the point. That was not why players disliked deynthesis. They disliked it because they had to choose which crafting schools to be limited to (for desynthesis), rather than being able to do them all - doing it all being something the game allowed and even encouraged up until that point.