Except Yoshi.P also said that they are in no way related to Dragons during a press event. As is also directly implied in their lore.Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990
http://i.imgur.com/XMLFzo7.png
He has also said that they are more along the lines of demons. Not Dragons.
I also don't see anything that says that all demons have to be Voidsent. Hell Demon in general is a broad term, and so is Voidsent seeing as it is simply a term given to creatures that are too 'different' to be "of Eorzea", usually sent by some other evil force in the Void. (Cloud of Darkness. Hence voidSENT)
As someone put nicely on this Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...shgard/cr33ull
"The director and producer saying they are in no way related to dragons >>>>> the majority of people with no idea what they're talking about"
A suggestion regarding height.
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08-05-2015, 04:51 PMDitto
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08-05-2015, 06:11 PMBunnyChain
What this game already does is have somewhat equal hight between genders (if you go with F 100 and M 0):
http://i.imgur.com/1eFG1wm.jpg
Exception being Au'Ra.
Personally I don't think proportions would be an issue if you scale them up equally:
http://i.imgur.com/u6ko3Qw.jpg
A forum is there for suggestions and general feedback, I don't get why people feel the need to discuss technical side of things like they were the developers themselves. :rolleyes:
I don't see it as much of a problem as an artistic choice but I'm also all up for more character customization options. -
08-06-2015, 12:17 AMNiwashiBefore they had a name, the working title used by the designers creating the race we now know as "Au Ra" was "Dragon Race". It even shows up labeled as such on the concept art for them. It was indeed mentioned in an interview that according to how you choose to set up the character configuration, you can make them come out looking more succubi-like, but it's players who blew that way out of proportion and started acting like they were designed after succubi or demons. They weren't. Their design motif was dragons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ditto
Now a design motif is not the same as lore. By lore they aren't related to either one (though some Ishgardians are against even coincidental similarities to their most hated enemy). They're their own unique race. -
08-06-2015, 12:22 AMJin-
Personally i don't see issue with the heights in game. Its pretty much following the real world human heights with some NPC random exceptions with special body sizes. Yes they are not "normal" when it happens in real world that someone is suddenly 2.72 meter long. It is a super rare case which should not be included to game except for NPCs and their personal story
And normally females are shorter than males so i don't see the issue here.
About those rare long/short people
Unless you guys want that special snowflake stuff which would be weird because it is special case for a reason (no reason, just mistake in human genes/dna)
Wou that looks stupid. Like a little girl with just increased height.Quote:
Originally Posted by BunnyChain
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08-06-2015, 02:44 AMLineageRazorI disagree; in fact, I was surprised at how natural it looked, compared to what I expected. Even large-sized, the female Au Ra still has shoulders that are less broad than the male's; average torso width is similar as well, allowing for the female curvature. Arms and legs are about as long as the male's, though less muscular. The head looks like it might be a bit too large, but that might be an illusion caused by the hairstyles (the male's poofy hair likely makes his face look smaller than it actually is, while the reverse is true for the female's tighter 'do.) It looks fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jin-
Regardless, as I mentioned in another thread, I doubt there are ever going to be any changes of this kind on existing races. Plenty of people who designed their characters designed them because they liked the aesthetics they already have; change them around, and suddenly their characters don't match their vision anymore, through no fault of the player. Admittedly, something like this (increasing the height range) isn't quite so bad since it doesn't affect existing players, but I still don't see SE going back and making any adjustments at all to existing races.
The best we can hope for is that they'll do better next time. So, there's still value in making noise about it - it lets SE know that folks aren't happy with the decision they made, so they won't make the same decision next time. Just don't get your hopes up about actually changing Au Ra. The way they are now is how they're gonna stay. -
08-06-2015, 02:58 AMRisvertasashiI think that's the very issue. OP & others would like the ranges to overlap, not "maximum value for females ends where the minimum for men begins".Quote:
Originally Posted by BunnyChain
Secondly, technical issues do block feature development. So yes, it's worth discussing (IMO anyways). If a dev swoops in to say "we can't do this for technical reasons" or even "actually we could do this pretty easily with our engine", it's not like no one will believe them.
I can think of 99 words to describe that upscaled Au Ra F and "natural" ain't one.Quote:
Originally Posted by LineageRazor
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08-06-2015, 04:00 AMDotsusama
As in BunnyChain's image examples, I don't see how scaling them would be an issue. I also don't see why people are so much on the offensive AGAINST the idea of equal height options for all characters of the same race. If you don't like it, that's fine, but some people have the equivalent mentality of "I don't like it so I don't want to see it AND you're wrong for wanting it!" which is not cool.
If the sliders are the same, then the people who want really tall female characters can have that. The people who want really short female or male characters can have those. Everyone else who likes things the way they are can keep things the way they are.
LITERALLY EVERYONE WINS -
08-06-2015, 08:47 AMSamcaesar1) Here! Using the power of art programs... I did this! http://i.imgur.com/KbvXUry.png Note, he isn't 1:1 with the average sized man, but the major difference comes with how quickly his waistline comes to an end and how long his thighs are, but even at that, his knees aren't too far away from the other guy's. "Isn't even close to the same proportions" are big words when the main difference lies in his torso and thigh length, but for all we know Robert Wadlow's parents have short torsos and long thighs which could explain that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaedan
2) Unless if you post evidence of how "grossly out of proportion" it'd look, you're just taking shots.
3) False equivalences, the reason we don't have nudity is because this is a T rated game.. Nudity would raise it to being an M rated on and that's poor business strategy, but hell, if this was an M rated game with the option to be nude, I'm fairly sure I'd go into the game knowing that there's gonna be nude people. Plus while we're talking about not liking what you see, I hate the super short, tween-sized, why should I have to deal with it?
4) Why on earth wouldn't it work for the Roegadyn? Girl Roegadyn literally just get 3 inches taller, that's not going to cause any major "odd proportion" changes that the opposition to the idea seems to be so cautious about. Also there wouldn't be a modeling/Hit box problem, every race shares the same hitbox, just a different model to represent that, otherwise way more people would play Lalafell because of the smaller hitbox. Like.. This isn't some FPS with headshots and bodyshot hitboxes, gear literally just snaps and molds to the body as it's done in this link featuring someone using an editor http://40.media.tumblr.com/b9790ff76...38vo1_1280.png
So, no "hitbox" problem, and you've yet to post proof of how the proportions would look so awful, however as another poster so kindly posted http://i.imgur.com/u6ko3Qw.jpg Everything looks pretty fine! The girl's head is a little wide, but nothing on them looks horrific.
Oh no I'm aware! Alaq and Sig's words on how the Ishgardians treated Au Ra are why I find the whole change from the theme of the Au Ra from Draconic to Demonic to be so bizarre, like, Ishgard literally killed them without mercy, just as they do to dragons, so players who are Au Ra would still feel odd in Ishgard, so why change it..? Plus it's not like literally every other encounter with Voidsent/Demons in the game doesn't result in us killing them, so that's pretty alienating as well if you ask me.Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990
Currently it's "debatable" in the lore. Yoshi-P hasn't said "They're demons", but he's definitely compared them to demons motif wise, you have to keep in mind he's speaking Japanese, don't take even translations for 100% certain. Given that the process for making the Au Ra went Dragon -> Demon Dragon mishmash (As the Demon concept art looks nothing like the current Au Ra but the labled Dragon race concept art looks incredibly close to the current Au Ra) it's not unfair to say they're dragon demon people in the same way people say Miqo'te are cat people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ditto
Demon are a weird subcategory of Voidsent. In terms of Eorzea taxinomy, there's two categories for "Living" and Living which is Aetherical beings and then everything else. With Aetherical beings there's the separation between "Voidsent" and "Elementals", and with Voidsent; demons, Ahrimans, The Cloud of Darkness, and Ascians all fit in that broad category. All demons are voidsent, not all voidsent are demons however.
http://gamerescape.com/2015/06/18/lo...h-fernehalwes/ An interview with Fern describes how they're quite literally a mishmash of Demon and Dragon designs, his reasoning doesn't make much sense though considering the two Xaela Au Ra you meet in 3.0 (Note, not 3.05) talk about how the Au Ra were slaughtered from the get go by Ishgard.. Which would be pretty alienating if you ask me. Ferne is much more reliable when it comes to lore than Yoshi-P would be.. It's kinda his job (See his influence on Lore and all with regards to the Japanese Devs taking what the english translators did and then changed their stuff so it fit with the translation).
That said, can we just settle on calling them Dragon demon people like how I originally did? It's a nice synergy!
See, my issue is hardly any guy I encounter who's at 0, while assuming I had the option to go 5'8, I definitely would with an alt I have.Quote:
Originally Posted by BunnyChain
Thank you for the image by the way, I was going to do that myself, but didn't get home til just recently~
The "suggestions and general feedback" forums are for the forums themselves, not the game, last time I checked, but it could've changed.
It's an artistic choice, I'm sure, but it's one that ultimately limits player freedom for very little reason, and I'd hope
Except plenty of women are easily dip into average men height range and same thing with men into average women heights, so why can't we? It's plenty realistic. Why do we have to limit girl PCs just because real life generally has girls that are shorter than guys? Not like we've got elezen, giants, cat people, and dragon demon people in real life, should we remove those racial options because "special snowflake stuff"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jin-
I started this this topic because I'm a tall woman, 5'11, and I would like for the girls in the game to be as tall as the guys because it's more enjoyable for me is hardly "Special snowflake" stuff and me being tall isn't a "mistake in human genes/dna".
Yep, tween facial shapes are how Auri women look, that feel is a sure of a hell a lot lessened with them being massively tall though, plus it's better than just "little girl" only option. Shoot, I'd kill if SE introduced a more tough adult face for Auri women, chin crests, thick facial scales, low neotony, a fully scale covered neck, et cetera.. It's totally within their power and I know people have been asking for more facial options to match the male midlander's 6 for a long time.
I agree with every thing you said in your first paragraph, plus you gotta keep in mind, the models aren't perfectly lined up/scaled in the picture, so the head might be a bit bigger due to minor errors. Really seeing them scaled to the same height really hones in the whole "The Au ra don't actually have majorly different "body mass" just height" deal I've been going on about.. The Roegadyn though, even at the same height, guy Roes are like massive compared to the women.Quote:
Originally Posted by LineageRazor
I mean, making adjustments to the height slider seems to be so minimal in work (We can do it with 3rd party editors in clientside deals and we could do it with a glitch a while back) while also giving players even more options for aesthetic choice (Because oh hey! Now you can be pretty tall even for a Miqo'te or Auri woman!)
The thing is hoping doesn't get us much anywhere, and seeing as how the Auri women are so small because a lot of players play Miqo'te and Midlander, I highly doubt they'll listen to us. Dissatisfaction and asking SE to change every race to allow this does two things: 1) Opens up previous races to more players, a whole "Oh hey! I don't have to be shorter than every guy of my race so I don't have to be Roegadyn to feel tall!" and 2) Puts it as the basis so we don't have to worry about future races being "short girl, tall guy" only. It's really the best thing to continue pressuring SE for the change for all races, it solves dissatisfaction currently and assures the problem won't happen again. It's a whole "You miss every shot you don't take" scenario!
Thank you! I mean really, I'm surprised that people are just "No." about it and they're talking about the scaling of all issues. I mean really, the major problems being keeping the NPCs from suddenly jumping around in height and SE having to give everyone a fantasia, but I'm sure there's a work around for the first one (Maybe updating only player character customization while leaving the NPC ones as a separate thing) while SE handing out a fantasia is hardly unheard of, who knows it might kickstart some fantasia addicts to start buying more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dotsusama
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08-06-2015, 09:20 AMKaedan94Quote:
Originally Posted by LineageRazor
That's because all that poster did was take a screenshot and enlarge it. They didn't actually scale up the model in-engine. If they had done the latter, you would see how utterly disproportionate it would be, and how it wouldn't fit within model parameters and the hit box.
That's the thing... we don't need a dev to swoop in here and say it, because it's obvious to anyone with modeling experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Risvertasashi
That, and it was a design choice. They specifically decided to make a large size difference between Au Ra males and females. And there's no issue with the other races. -
08-06-2015, 10:51 AMSamcaesar"Take a screenshot and enlarge it" You mean scale it to the size of the guy's picture right? Because that's literally what she did and that's literally how "height" in this game works. Heck I would search around for 3rd party software to do it myself, but I'm pretty sure it's against ToS to use something like that. Can you please explain, what on earth are you talking about with these "model parameters and the hit box", because currently it sounds like you're taking terms you know that are associate with models and are applying them to sound like you know what you're talking about. There's a universal hitbox in the game for players, otherwise you'd see people min maxing with Lalafell because of "smaller hitboxes" or with Roegadyn because "their large hitbox lets them have a larger reach for melee" or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaedan94
Like seriously, literally every model in the game scales like this just fine, look at whenever a Roegadyn uses a chocobo compared to when a Lalafell uses a chocobo, they sure didn't redesign chocobos for the two of them despite massive size growth. Or what about Battle in Big Keep whenever you shrink down? It's not like the model looks off proportion or something, just small as heck. Or how about all the bosses which are just upscaled versions or mobs?
Don't act like you know so much about modeling yourself unless if you're going to go into depth about it instead of flinging out terms. Talk is cheap.
It was a design choice to not have girl Roegadyn or male Miqo'te, and we've got those in the game now, not like this would be the first time devs have gone back on "design choices".