Is Paladin in a Bad Spot?

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Originally Posted by NFaelivrin

I really don't understand why SE felt the need to give Warrior, a class full of 0 TP cost GCDs and thus without any real TP issues outside overpower spam, a TP restore cooldown.

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Probably because they didn't want WAR to have major self heals and mitigation from Inner Beast and Equilibrium in Deliverance. But they didn't know what to do with Del. version of Equilibrium. They gave it a TP restore. It is just not needed. I hardly ever drop below 700 TP thanks to 0 TP GCDs that I use as soon as available. and Equilibrium just adds salt to the injury lol. I'd rather if it just gave a free Abandon stack in Deliverance maybe? lol

The only reason Warriors don't MT is because they're without question the best OT and you eat a LB penalty for bringing 2. So, PLD and DRK rotate for MT. And, for pretty much all of Savage's content, DRK is flat out better.

Extra mitigation does not matter unless you need it. Hasn't the tanking meta taught anyone anything? You only need enough survivability to not die. Everything else goes into DPS. We're just seeing that idea manifested in tank choices. Clearly the top groups have no issues with keeping DRK alive. So, bringing PLD just means you lose raid DPS for no gain because DPS will always be your top priority unless the game changes. When you are listing out a bunch of irrelevant garbage to try and cover up this fact, you're really out of touch.

You lose DPS from bringing a Monk vs. a Dragoon and Ninja in order to keep an int debuff. You lose DPS from DRKs just doing more damage than PLDs.

Those are the exact changes Elysium made. The result? World first.

This topic is a complete joke based on a singular truth -- if you asked PLDs if they would give up these perceived "advantages" for more DPS, any PLD that knows what they're doing would make that trade in a heartbeat. Seriously. It's so stupid that this is even a discussion. A bunch of largely irrelevant utility vs. 200-300 raid DPS. It's not even close.

To add to the above post, it doesn't help at all that the design of Alexander Savage effectively works to undermine Paladin's defensive superiority by rendering Bulwark, Sheltron and passive shield mitigation nearly useless in every fight but A2S. It boggles my mind that they'd add Sheltron, a fun skill that finally gives PLD something of a skill ceiling with its need to be timed somewhat precisely, and then make it absolutely and completely useless in the current raid because there isn't a single big tank hit that Sheltron can do anything for.

PLD just need a bit of a tweak, that's all.

People's been asking to move Shield Swipe off GCD, and that would probably be one of the tweaks.

It "feels" weak because people only measure DPS because only DPS is important enough to be measured. Everything else is just the flowers and whatnot. Tanks need to DPS, Healers need to DPS, DPS need to DPS more. If you can't reach that DPS, you're out, if you can't pull off this single best rotation, you're out, if you can't totally be a pro at this, you're out.

It's getting to the point where every class needs a buff in it's DPS. Then came another, harder raid, and people will still complain to want more DPS, more numbers on the screen, more buffs. They buff this job, the other jobs will get mad and DEMAND to have the same thing. People complain that balance is centered around raids and stuff but it's actually us that keeps on wanting more and more until SE just throws up their hands and goes, "You want this? Fine, you get it. Oh look at that, now this OTHER group of people gets angry because now you guys can do what they do and they want something to compensate for it."

What I really don't understand is why people don't want to play these other classes that they consider OP? Why restrict yourself to one class, and even though you know it's not very good for you, you still play it? There is no niche in this game, no rules that say you only have to play one class, no board of rulers will punish you because you won't stay loyal to this one job. You think PLD's DPS is too small, the numbers aren't big enough for you? Then go WAR or a dps class and see the numbers on screen SOAR. You have the choice, you hold them in your hands and STILL say you feel the game restricts you in whatever way.

I'm done. Continue on.

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Originally Posted by elemental10

You think PLD's DPS is too small, the numbers aren't big enough for you? Then go WAR or a dps class and see the numbers on screen SOAR. You have the choice, you hold them in your hands and STILL say you feel the game restricts you in whatever way.

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"Go play something else" is the absolute worst answer for a game designer.

Everyone should have the right to enjoy the game the way they want to. If you want to enjoy the end-game as a PLD, you should have the ability to. When people start to lock jobs out of their groups because of perceived imbalances or are forced to switch jobs for efficiency reasons, your game has problems.

This is not only in regards to PLDs, but it also relates to the current state of the AST.

You want your classes to be balanced.

As is, they aren't.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

"Go play something else" is the absolute worst answer for a game designer.

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Too bad I'm not a game designer.

I don't know how to balance a game but I do know that giving as high damage to a PLD compared to WAR will definitely see an uprising from WAR people. Then WAR people will also get buff then DRK will be left behind and so on...

You're seeing what I'm seeing? Because this is what happens with a lot of things as well. A job can do this, but not do that. Some other job can do that instead. So, if you want to get THAT, why don't you play as that other job?

It's not the worst answer, I disagree with you. We have been given CHOICES. These choices have a pro and cons to each and some people can't see that. I don't see any reason to stick with only PLD or only WAR. I switch them both according to what is needed or what I feel like playing. So, yeah. Go play as something else is my answer.

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Originally Posted by elemental10

I don't know how to balance a game but I do know that giving as high damage to a PLD compared to WAR will definitely see an uprising from WAR people.

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The problem is that PLD's lack of damage is far greater than WAR's lack of mitigation.
And they also are far behind in term of raid utility.

So, either you slightly reduce WAR's mitigation, or you increase PLD dps or utility.
I posted in another topic something that could be interesting: Allowing PLD to take the spot of "main tank healer", thus allowing to create party setups with only one healer, even for endgame raiding where you have only one big target.

This I like and plays into the "PLD protector role" very well. It might also push WAR out of the OT only spot they have been pushed into.


To be honest it all seems like win to me, I can finally live my dream and truly become...


MAGE TANK TO THE RESCUE!!!!

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Originally Posted by NFaelivrin

To add to the above post, it doesn't help at all that the design of Alexander Savage effectively works to undermine Paladin's defensive superiority by rendering Bulwark, Sheltron and passive shield mitigation nearly useless in every fight but A2S. It boggles my mind that they'd add Sheltron, a fun skill that finally gives PLD something of a skill ceiling with its need to be timed somewhat precisely, and then make it absolutely and completely useless in the current raid because there isn't a single big tank hit that Sheltron can do anything for.

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Sheltron is very good.

The downside is its too good versus a 1 hit physical tank buster.