BRD/MCH Fixed!

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Originally Posted by Rafaelhades

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The problem isn't about the "buffs" it was a skill causing them to lose damage but MAINLY changing how they play. Which is a way most Bards have been playing since ARR Launch.

If God of WAR at the end became turn based, is that acceptable? There is nothing wrong with people complaining. if Bards are going to be range dpsers with less dps but with utility. Give them good utility. The problem is when Heavensward came it did nothing but add a few new abilities to buff damage/etc output in your rotation. My BLM plays the same as it always has but now with extra Job abilities I have to pop in my rotation and a situational Ley Lines. Bard on the other hand became mostly a Stationary Mage Similar to a BLM Ley Lines. heavensward actually made them lose damage. Now the buff actually increases their damage but now they are nothing more than BLM sitting in 1 spot using their situational Ley Lines Variant.

why are we still pretending it was a damage loss

everyone just sucked at using it so it looked like a loss, lol

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Originally Posted by Noira

Please don't switch from Bard to magic casting classes thank you. If you're complaining about having cast times now.....I'd hate to imagine how you would handle being a caster and having to sustain high dps while having to move.

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Right, my main character is bard my alt is summoner, so please tell me how I cant stand cast times. The issue I am having is before heaven's ward autoattacks made up for around 28% bard dps, Now I don't number crunch but somehow 28% in auto attacks vs 30% damage gained overall but wait what is this moving interrupts this somehow seems like a bad trade off. Next, the class doesn't flow as well now. What I mean is off global cooldowns could be weaved in so easily while dodging and making yourself a lane as to not place mechanics or what have you ontop of a party member. Now I feel like I have to not only watch my feet, watch my partner, watch every single off global cooldown and hope to free proc insta crit straight shot to even go in for a repelling shot that it boggles the mind. This is how you ruin a class. Let us face it already a weak dps except has always always shined in every final turn battle(5,9,13) being top or competing with the highest melee cause mechanics. Now if I cant necessarily dodge with easy and have to put more effort in watching every single little aspect of the fight, my cooldowns, off globals, dodging, casting, the people around me, healers mana bars, I feel although being a little biased here my dps numbers should make up for all this extra effort since if I wanted a multibillion step perfectly executed rotation I want overall dragoon dps at least. This is the question of does the work pay off and sadly it does not.

So the complaining is, it now requires skill to play ? Tbh I'll give you the singing thing, the point still stands it's a stance learn to use it. So far most of the great bards have used it to push their dps even further.

All classes have a new skill cap. Did you guys honestly think bard would be left untouched ? If you want better dps as bard learn to use WM.

Blm is no longer pew pew easy and requires thinking on keeping enochian and ley lines effective.

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Originally Posted by Noira

So far most of the great bards have used it to push their dps even further.

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Pushing their DPS further than what? The very low baseline that came with the bad class scaling from 3.0? Pushed further than when not having WM on? Which if no bard could do so the skill would be so broken it should be removed completely? The issue is not pushing DPS higher than the very low baseline that came with 3.0 or pushing the DPS to be higher than when not using WM...it is pushing that DPS to be high enough to be considered by most adequately scaled with the other DPS classes.

A majority consensus of bards and machinists which believes it has become adequate needs to be reached or SE will not hear the end of this until such majority consensus is achieved. I am not talking consensus of the silent majority who have not and do not supply/give feedback on balancing.

You may be able to convince yourself it is adequate but as for convincing others on here that it is adequate, try supplying parser information to back up what I quoted instead of making assumptions or relying on he said/she said examples. Even high quality theory crafting that uses correct and accurate mathematical analysis would be better in trying to convince others towards the validity of your argument. That's just how the cookie crumbles.

There is no such thing in this game it is all pointless repetition over and over again. The problem is that bard is too clunky now, the better fix would have been WM insta cast insta recast, now u maintain mobility and might be able to weave a rotation, thus you still get the old school play style and although while it still clunks it is a far better place then where we are now. Now I have nothing against this so called "skill" but again if I wanted to play such a class I had to do a multitude of things perfect to get super high numbers I would play those classes. Not play a class where a ~5% increase to dps comes from wanting to bash my head against my desk. And before any more opinions about this come about, yes I use WM, chances are most here have not yet tried to play it at 60. Also I don't like the idea of the OT warrior to even be able to touch the dps of even the weakest dps jobs, bard/mch.

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Originally Posted by Noira

So the complaining is, it now requires skill to play ? Tbh I'll give you the singing thing, the point still stands it's a stance learn to use it. So far most of the great bards have used it to push their dps even further.

All classes have a new skill cap. Did you guys honestly think bard would be left untouched ? If you want better dps as bard learn to use WM.

Blm is no longer pew pew easy and requires thinking on keeping enochian and ley lines effective.

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Hm, I think most people thought common sense would happen, and the class flavor still stays the same, but some adjustments need to be made. Not changing part of the core of the class. I guess people will defend bad game design.

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Originally Posted by Vyshan

Still not going to use Gauss Barrel.
Having my autoattacks and mobility are more valuable to me.

But hey, /golfclap to those who view this as a fix.

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That's fine. You are within your every right to play the game the way you want to, just like every group is within their very right to boot you and invite a MCH who actually plays well.

Having played a BRD since 2.0, I can attest that BRD had (and now shares) THE best utility: MP/TP regen and dmg boosting ability. The only thing that has changed has been the decreasing difficulty of boss encounters due to the increase in gear levels. Oh, you say, NIN can grant that too! But that was to ease the reliance on BRD/MCH in the case you get into DF without said job. Did we need a little tuning because SE's numbers post 50 were different than ours enough that it caused the ever prevalent exclusion of X job? Yes, and we got it. By the sound of a lot of incredibly vocal complainers, we SHOULD be a zip-zig-zagging Starcraft Siege Tank that can lay waste from a distance, avoiding mechanics and dealing top DPS all of the time. Which BRD did in 2.0 - leading to the Ranged only meta a year ago and causing nerfs on cross classed Blood for Blood. Mobility is still there, you just have to play smarter now just like everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Rafaelhades

Did we need a little tuning because SE's numbers post 50 were different than ours enough that it caused the ever prevalent exclusion of X job? Yes, and we got it.

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I still see it happening, the insults directed at bard's and machinist's based on class playing and not ability to play that class and people still being kicked from groups or blocked from them because of the class and not the players ability in game. You can argue that maybe these changes will help alleviate that somewhere down the timeline but currently SE have not fixed it with these changes because it is still happening. Will these changes fix that in the long term? I do not know but I do know that it has not yet.

What I can say for sure is the introduction of cast timers and forcing bards to remain static so much in order to play the current job properly has dramatically changed the feel of the class for many and there is validity in their arguments that the changes went to far from their perspective in changing how the class plays even if I do not feel it has changed enough to make me personally stop trying to use the class.

Personally I can tolerate WM but I am under no illusion that the play style is quite different than prior to 3.0. So while I can tolerate it, I understand why others don't. I am also not convinced yet that our DPS output has been scaled up to be adequate enough to prevent so many being excluded from endgame content or being insulted so often just because play a bard or machinist instead of their ability to play it but I lack the sheer amount of parser data from a large enough sample size to put that down to more than just my individual perception and personal experience currently.