Please disable changing Cleric Stance during combat for make healer focus on healing.

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Originally Posted by desufin

No it isn't. Come back to me when Stun doesn't have diminishing returns and bosses (especially Coil bosses) can be stunned. THEN you can argue that Holy is a mitigation tool. Until then it is as much of a mitigation tool as regular DPS is, which yes it is a mitigation tool as the faster you kill something the less damage you take, but you DON'T compare DPS to actual mitigation tools like that. You just don't.

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Haha. I could write a book on cc and its potential tactical uses at this point, I think.

Any cc, even with diminishing returns counts as damage mitigation. This is ofcourse provided that it does not cc everyone (allies included).
In the case of dungeons or such, mobs will typically not be alive for a long time.
This greatly increases the effectiveness of holy's damage mitigation, which is further increased by its damage done. (due to mobs dying even faster)


Does that clarify it for you, young one?

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Originally Posted by KhemSanjari

This is basically it. Tank is at full HP. WHM has regen up and Selene is doing whatever she's doing. What are you going to do? Stand there and twiddle your thumbs until you wait for something to happen? No, you pop cleric stance, throw a few DoTs down and then come out of it when people need healing. Hell, Lustrate still works in cleric. Helping with the DPS helps the fight go faster and is fun. If I recall, our SCH DPS'd a little in our Turn 13 Kill back in the day and it really helped.

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Toss dots without cleric because cleric is clunky and I hate it?

Honestly think if y'all want to DPS so bad, advocate base damage increase and get rid of cleric.

First of all, having no Cleric Stance does not completely remove a healer's ability to DPS. It only makes the spells do less damage. I'm getting the feeling here that far too many people are equating the disabling of Cleric Stance with the complete inability to deal damage at all.

That being said, the only viable reason I can think of for disabling it in party content is to prevent Healer DPS from breaking raids in two in the way Scholars pretty much single handedly cleared Final Coil in the first week. However, balancing the entire game against the 1% who would use Cleric Stance to achieve this is generally not a good decision, as many discussions on this subject have concluded.

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Originally Posted by desufin

No it isn't. Come back to me when Stun doesn't have diminishing returns and bosses (especially Coil bosses) can be stunned. THEN you can argue that Holy is a mitigation tool. Until then it is as much of a mitigation tool as regular DPS is, which yes it is a mitigation tool as the faster you kill something the less damage you take, but you DON'T compare DPS to actual mitigation tools like that. You just don't.

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Regular dps doesn't give an instant effect in regards to mitigating damage. Holy does on anything that isn't immune to stun. Try again.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

This topic is about people expecting healers to dps because of cleric stance. I'd say the very replies in this thread kind of prove the OPs point..

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Sorry what? People are telling the TC that disabling cleric stance would limit healer's potential on their parties. I don't want SE limiting my job, if something, I'd love more tools to make the skill ceiling even greater to be able to bring even more. That has nothing to do with me expecting other healers to DPS. Each person decides how ambitious they want to be with the roles and jobs they play in this game, I have nothing against people playing casually and I have nothing against people striving to bring the 100% out of their jobs.

The only point that has been proven here is that the TC is against the latter, not the other way around buddy.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Haha. I could write a book on cc and its potential tactical uses at this point, I think.

Any cc, even with diminishing returns counts as damage mitigation. This is ofcourse provided that it does not cc everyone (allies included).
In the case of dungeons or such, mobs will typically not be alive for a long time.
This greatly increases the effectiveness of holy's damage mitigation, which is further increased by its damage done. (due to mobs dying even faster)


Does that clarify it for you, young one?

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Classy, calling me a kid. Read the post again and again til you learn why Holy is NOT a mitigation tool. CC is only good as mitigation when it works Holy is as good at damage mitigation on things that ACTUALLY MATTERS as Sleep/Repose, aka worthless. And Flare is not a mitigation tool yet its effect is basically the same as Holy (with 2-4times the pretty numbers). Learn mechanics before you continue your clueless parade.

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Originally Posted by Miitan

Regular dps doesn't give an instant effect in regards to mitigating damage. Holy does on anything that isn't immune to stun. Try again.

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And anything worth mitigating damage from is immune to Stun. Thus Holy is not a mitigation tool.

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Originally Posted by desufin

No it isn't. Come back to me when Stun doesn't have diminishing returns and bosses (especially Coil bosses) can be stunned. THEN you can argue that Holy is a mitigation tool. Until then it is as much of a mitigation tool as regular DPS is, which yes it is a mitigation tool as the faster you kill something the less damage you take, but you DON'T compare DPS to actual mitigation tools like that. You just don't.

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Depends on the situation, but holy is MOST DEFINITELY a mitigation tool if used properly. Expert roulette for example, on trash pulls I can pop divine seal, give a cure 2 (from the initial pull damage) and regen, then cleric stance + spam holy and the tank takes literally no damage from all the mobs being stun locked + having a powerful regen on them. If that is not mitigation, then maybe we should review what mitigation means: "the action of reducing the severity, seriousness, or painfulness of something".

Can I get a link to confirm Healer dps being taken into account for Heavensword? I'm all for Healers contributing to the groups DPS, but I'm ABSOLUTELY against it being mandatory.

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Originally Posted by desufin

Holy is NOT a mitigation tool. CC is only good as mitigation when it works Holy is as good at damage mitigation on things that ACTUALLY MATTERS as Sleep/Repose, aka worthless. And Flare is not a mitigation tool yet its effect is basically the same as Holy (with 2-4times the pretty numbers). Learn mechanics before you continue your clueless parade. And anything worth mitigating damage from is immune to Stun. Thus Holy is not a mitigation tool.

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"Worth", much like your opinions, is a subjective thing that differs from person to person. Therefore it's not an accurate tool to judge the validity of a statement.

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Originally Posted by Atlaworks

"Worth", much like your opinions, is a subjective thing that differs from person to person. Therefore it's not an accurate tool to judge the validity of a statement.

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Okay so let me get this clear. How's that stunned Bahamut Prime or slept Twintania or Pacified Nael working out for you? Oh wait that's right, they are immune. This not an opinion, it's a freaking fact.