Make relics the best weapons 100% time

Having relics branch off into the final coil would be... counteractive. It is meant for persons who aren't able to enter or clear the final coil. It is meant for them to have some semblance of empowering accomplishment without having to clear the turns. It would help players push to get into final coil, sure, but then it would defeat the purpose of the relic in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Neuflune

My bad. I stopped reading when the flame wars began.

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No worries, I know where you're coming from. It isn't a pretty sight.

The furthest I've gotten to is the Animus phase. Simply because I'm quite lazy. I do take my time to do the quests though. I'll get there eventually. However, whether or not the relic quest line can be considered 'casual' is still up for debate. I do think that it's a mix of both. The one thing I do notice is that a lot of players treat the whole relic quest as some sort of competition of, "who can get the latest upgrade tier in the fastest amount of time," and quite frankly, it's not nice to see.

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Originally Posted by Umisame

OK, edited thread with some info to open mind to some people:

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I like the idea of the alternative you've suggested, but I don't think this would really solve the problem we are currently facing. It probably won't change the stance that the relic should not be tied to raiding and you would have more people arguing against it for the sole reason of content being locked out by difficult content. Sure, there is an alternative, but a lot of players would possibly be against that option. I appreciate the sentiment that there should be more options, however, I don't think these other options should be tied to high-end or difficult content. You'd get the whole Titan HM fiasco just like when the game launched because it was deemed too difficult by most of the playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Skeith-Adeline

Having relics branch off into the final coil would be... counteractive. It is meant for persons who aren't able to enter or clear the final coil. It is meant for them to have some semblance of empowering accomplishment without having to clear the turns. It would help players push to get into final coil, sure, but then it would defeat the purpose of the relic in the first place.

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Hey, english is not my first language so i dont know if i wrote something bad. What i tried to show is three ways to get a relic. Grinding(like now), raiding or doing both methods.

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Originally Posted by Anatha

Enjoy never being BiS, Fran.

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This is so pointless to say. Have good day Anatha

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

The one thing I do notice is that a lot of players treat the whole relic quest as some sort of competition of, "who can get the latest upgrade tier in the fastest amount of time," and quite frankly, it's not nice to see.

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People will find a way to "1UP" others regardless of the content. Don't feel too bad about it, let them slap each other with their epeens xD

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Originally Posted by Magis

// lots of (valid) points //

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Problems with that though...

a) No idea about Ramuh drops, because I've not even touched that yet; I know it's not a hard requirement anymore (if I'm right), but Titan Ex is still impossible for me and that kinda drowns my motivation to go further (see frustration and no fun) - I assume I'm not alone with this, meaning primal weapons are supposedly also out of the question for at least some people; as for dungeon weapons...which ones exactly? Last I remember are the darklight ones that drop from the first lv50 dungeons...
b) "Only" 2nd BIS, yet they require just about as much time as (if not more than) the Coil way... don't really think it's rightly balanced. See, the hard bosses perfectly translate to time investment as well, and then we're facing time investment vs time investment... Do we have two options? Certainly. Is there difference between them, in this regard? None whatsoever. If one can't find the huge chunk of time to learn hard boss fights, what would make them find the same huge chunk of time for soulless grindfests?
c) Titan HM was hard indeed, but it could be done - it perfectly crossed the T and dotted the Is on the "determination" aspect as well, if you ask me.
d) Okay, fine, gate stuff behind long grinds that require no skill at all - it's so much better to have people do endgame dungeons and such without even being able to properly play their roles? Putting aside the swarm of overgeared characters and the thusly easy carries, everyone knows it's not right, everyone experiences the bad players and the toxic atmosphere that more often than not is generated around them, with name-calling and ragequits and such. Ultimately, it's not good for those without the time, and not good for others when they get grouped with such players. And then you have the PF full of LFs that only want people who know the fight by heart, blindfolded, backwards, at thrice its normal speed - like, how? (Re: extreme primals with weapon drops not really being an alternative...)

Yes, obviously, games need their time investments. The problem here, in my opinion, is that it's just not necessarily in proportion with the reward. And in case of the relic progression past Zenith, it doesn't provide any additional perks (ie. learning to properly use different skills in different scenarios) either, which is obviously already a problem anyway. Sure, okay, make us work for it. But when that work is long AND also boring af, without contributing to anything (because a bunch of numbers does not mean actually getting better), while there are so many other things to do as well (as much as certain elements seem to discourage multiclassing, it's still the core of the game, just to mention the most prominent one)... there's just no appeal to it.

I've said this in other posts already, but feel it's relevant again: why is it that the only two options seem to be "AFK123" and "impossible-even-a-year-later"? The gap between the two is so damn wide an ocean could fit in there, why is it so hard to create something that doesn't make you fall asleep but doesn't make you leave angry af after twelve dozen tries either? For example Pharos Sirius (as it was originally) - was great, angry impatient complaints aside. Sure, there were lots of wipes, and there was a good chance it required two or three different parties if you went via DF to get it right, might not be able to do it on the first day either, but eventually it could be completed (see determination). Would have been the perfect difficulty for a "legendary" weapon upgrade. Instead we were ... idek what we were doing at that time with our relic, to be honest, probably getting turned into zombies in low-level FATEs for twelve pieces of rainbow candy for a new lick of paint.

And yeah, I meant lore-wise. Unless you're one of those guys who only sees numbers everywhere, you choose your starting class because you're attracted to it at the very least, at which level I think you'd want to get the "legendary" weapon for that class(/job) when you get there later on.

Wernt achivements ment for long term motivation?
If you defend relics with "long term" as argument you say achivements have failed and we can get rid of them!
Did you finish the 10.000.000 gil from leves achivement?

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

But go on and try to do it on casual time allowance

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There is no such thing as a "casual time budget". There is hard content, casual content, and if the developers are particularly good, content that meets nicely in the middle.

Likewise, there are hardcore players with small time budgets and casual players with large time budgets. I can all but guarantee you that the Relic questline was made specifically with the latter group of players in mind. Does that leave casual players with small time budgets a little bit out in the cold? Yes it does, much like every other MMO on the market. That's just how the genre functions.

Sorry one of the big flaws in this, is that we don't want to all have the same weapon at the end of the day.

1. Having Raid weapons be the best not only gives us unique skins but something that is rewarding for the effort put into clearing it.
2. Relic quest currently does not require group coordination to the extent raids do. (It's more like an individual quest.)
3. The "casual grind" vs raid = same weapon but sooner is unfair to the raiders 1-2 weeks ahead is a joke.

Time has nothing to do with how 'hardcore' you are. My group finishes t10-13 every Tuesday in just about an hour. That's it for raiding for the week unless we decide to do Savage. Even during progression my group only raids for 3 hours a day, 2-3 days a week.