Bard needs some love too.

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Originally Posted by cookiecutter

Removing the damage penalty is asking too much since bards could just sing liberally. You'd could just have two bards rotating a combo of mage's ballad/foe's req through the whole fight with minimal consequence. A passive buff for not nothing moving though seems like a feasible idea but then the people who love bards mobility would be turned off.

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WAR
PLD
WHM
SCH
BRD
BRD
Caster
Melee

Infinite Ballad, Infinite Foe's, much damage.

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Originally Posted by ruskie

As someone who mains bard I can say that no, bards do not need a buff. They are good as is. A lot of it comes down to knowing how to play. I have been parsed by friends and have outdsped higher geared bards(by a few points)(and I don't actually have b4b while the other one had)(and from what I've been told my dps was 400+ and I was being lazy without keeping straight shot up all the time). And the only person that seems to outdps me in fights is our monk. Other bard and drg tend to be about even behind us. It's all about knowing your job and how to play it. Understanding the encounter helps as well. I have yet to have any problems with my damage - what I did have a problem for a long time was thinking that I was underperforming which probably led me to try and improve myself and get a better understanding of my job.

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give me a stance that boost dmg by 20% but heavy shot / S-shot have 2.5 cast time...and unable to cast songs....call it Ranger stance :)

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

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Just my personal experience. Never had anyone complain about my DPS - it was always where it needed to be. Infact even when I was doubting my own performance a lot of the time I was asked to join for stuff and people kept telling me I'm doing fine.

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Originally Posted by ruskie

Just my personal experience. Never had anyone complain about my DPS - it was always where it needed to be. Infact even when I was doubting my own performance a lot of the time I was asked to join for stuff and people kept telling me I'm doing fine.

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Bard shouldn't be about the dps but the stuff they bring to the party, right now we aren't bringing shit but dps....oh the songs are soo needed in certain fights...hooray...certain fights.

Bard should be the most sought after class for bringing benefits to the group other than DPS. So we can move around and still do dps...so can everyone else, they just refuse to move and insist the healer heal through the damage.

Bard needs more actual utility, haste song for all classes to cast faster, run song to not cut off during fights and zoning, heal over time song (yes I know people argue there wont be a need for healers, Eos has said the same damn thing)
More debuff abilities to the enemy, slow their asses down, reduce their heals, things like that. Bards should be able to juggle more songs than just 1 per time (consider old eq) And most importantly, bards should not look like they raided John Travolta's wardrobe from the 70s. (bards are traveling story tellers, apparently im suppose to travel in disco clothing because that's functional.)

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Originally Posted by PureEclipse

Bard shouldn't be about the dps but the stuff they bring to the party, right now we aren't bringing shit but dps....oh the songs are soo needed in certain fights...hooray...certain fights.

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Face it... this game is about DSP, Healer and Tank checks and team coordination. Not about support. We probably have the most utility out of all the other jobs. Problem is 90% of the bards just go pew pew and ignore the rest(even I was like that at one point). I see a DPS check and we have BLM/SMNs pop Foe, we've been fighting for a while, I already used up two or 3 invigorates myself I'll pop army's for a few seconds to help out everyone with some TP regen. I see healers hitting 50% mp - I'll pop a mage's. Also you need to be familiar with the encounter to know when you can safely do a 4s cast of a song(hint don't do it when shriek is about to go off and you are not yet in position).


We have a few benefits over the other jobs one of them is there is no rotation to mess up as such so we can pay more attention to our surroundings and call out things that are needed. We are not up close and personal to mobs so we actually see the whole area more easily.

They intentionally didn't give bards all the utility... you have fey glow and ugh fey light(I HATE YOU SKILLSPEED I HATE YOU SOOOOO MUCH) from Selene so SCH has utility there. The way support is done it is spread about through all jobs - this is a good thing.

I do think a high(because we lack mind so would need to compensate for that) potency HoTs song would work as well - though I find it hard to place anywhere in the current fights... the damage output usually requires a full blown aoe heal or aoe heal+shields.

As for debuffs I'd like to see flame arrow have a slow effect(need to be careful when moving in fire afterall). I'd also like to see repelling shot have an enmity reduction element in there(something I can use just after the opener to help out the tank more because even with quelling strikes I have pulled enmity in certain fights due to mechanics or what not).

And in case you haven't noticed bards often always have atleast one spot in most PFs - I've personaly been asked a few times to help out with stuff because people were missing a bard. Is bard a requirement NO not at all(AND THIS IS A GOOD THING). But people like having a bard around for the what if moments and so on. And since we can output respectable DPS we have that as a benefit as well. And a bard LB3 has saved a wipe or few before as well.

Think of bard utility beyond the skills you have but also what you bring to the run as a highly mobile, not easy to mess up job that can do a lot more than just DPS. If you think of utility only in terms of the skills though then yeah could use a few more.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

I would like to see damage numbers for a Bard on turret duty for T8.

No Towers, no homing, no Brainjack, no songs.

Then you can compare those numbers to MNK/BLM on turret duty.

Wouldn't be surprised if BRD could do 450+ without offering any support.

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No Bard can do 450. Unless they have grear greater than 115.

Bard loses next to no dps handling brain jack and homing missile. And singing just knocks it down maybe 10-20 depending on how long they sing.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

No Bard can do 450. Unless they have grear greater than 115.

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I have reports of 420 or so.

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Bard loses next to no dps handling brain jack and homing missile. And singing just knocks it down maybe 10-20 depending on how long they sing.

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Yup that is a benefit to bards and direct utility.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

No Bard can do 450. Unless they have grear greater than 115.

Bard loses next to no dps handling brain jack and homing missile. And singing just knocks it down maybe 10-20 depending on how long they sing.

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Things have changed a little though. Before 2.4, 450 is possible with a slave bard for songs and DRG debuff.

Right now with crafted IL110 gears you can stack secondary stats to a new level we have never seen before - without any of the IL120/IL130 gears me and my another FC bard have managed to sustain at 430-440 on average on dummy, without DRG debuff. With DRG debuff it will be even easier.

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Originally Posted by ruskie

I have reports of 420 or so.


Yup that is a benefit to bards and direct utility.

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420 is already exceptionally high. You're not going to see higher than that without better gear. (that includes melding 110 to make it better)

Zzzz i wake up and now this is full of nonsense. Like if i care if people pull high dps on dummy, you don't balance the game around dummy or a lazy Bard that doesn't have bfb and doesn't keep straight shot up but thinks hes doing fine because the people in his group are even worst than that.

People that still haven't beat the second coil telling me that we are there only to support when in the new content everyone needs high dps or you will wipe to enrage.
People telling me that i can repelling shot in t11 thinking i speak about nerve gas and they clearly ignored my post and don't know about the mechanic of having to be close to the boss to remove the invulnerability buff.
People telling me that less Melee would be easier for people in t11 because they asume the melee will derp and wipe doing pos attack, and it's actually better to have melee because Mages are not that good for the add phase.

Our gear scales like really bad, our weapon damage is a joke. Make some research Bard is not fine, people think it is because of our Songs but i don't know what's so hard to understand that we are a dps, not a healer or a support job.


To put it simple if Nin had the option to give mana we wouldn't have any place in raids. And in the future this might happen because Nin brings good utility and good damage, and ballad isn't not that important if people are not diying a lot.