@dev team ->> Thanks for bringing back party grinding, -really-

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

There's nothing skillful about party grinding.

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Wrong.

In party grinding your XP is entirely dependent on your party's skill and coordination. In guildleves/quest grind your skill gain is determined by how fast you can whack moles, and run between quest givers. Which one takes more skill? The answer is obvious.

It doesn't matter how good a quest grinder whack-a-mole player is at their job, it won't show when compared to someone who is completely clueless as long as that person doesn't get lost running between the moles and the quest giver.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

Wrong.

In party grinding your XP is entirely dependent on your party's skill and coordination. In guildleves/quest grind your skill gain is determined by how fast you can whack moles, and run between quest givers. Which one takes more skill? The answer is obvious.

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So you don't get more XP by whacking those moles faster during party grinding? Oookay.

At least there's a clear reward for being efficient. The faster you are, the larger the bonus at the end. While party grinding you might see a difference in xp/hour, but usually a parser is required to even notice.

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Originally Posted by captainpicard

Its starting to feel more like a game.

Now keep working on improving the classic camp and pull party setup.

And please delete/kill/eradicate the leve system, and the WoW quests, and the instanced dungeon crap.

Kthx.

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Why don't you just say "remake/clone FFXI"? No but seriously, why not play FFXI? Is it the monthly fee or what? kthx...

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

So you don't get more XP by whacking those moles faster during party grinding? Oookay.

At least there's a clear reward for being efficient. The faster you are, the larger the bonus at the end. While party grinding you might see a difference in xp/hour, but usually a parser is required to even notice.

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Have you ever played whack-a-mole (the arcade game not the modern MMO version). One whack kills the mole, so no.

Actually in party grinding it is quite clear when you are in a good (skilled and coordinated) party versus one that is not. You hardly need a parser. In quest grinding it has no noticeable effect at all unless some how you manage to die (very rare with most of the grind quests) the time actually spent fighting is so small that the only defining factor in time is how closely grouped your quests are and how far they are from the quest giver. What a terrrible design for encouraging people to work together.

That is assuming you can get a group to do group quests. I can count on both hands the number of times I have ever gotten or even seen a real pick up group for quest grinding. 99% of quest grinders simply do it solo because it is so incredibly inconvenient to find other people on the same quest/step as you. It simply doesn't work. So please by all means put more sidequests and other activities in the game, but don't screw us people who enjoy playing with people over in the process.

It isn't necessary for you people to have your fun, to also ruin our fun in the process. The leveling curve is hardly steep in this game if you want to play solo fine, but those who want to level faster and in a group should get that option too.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

And it definitely shows, in the overall quest quality.

If to achieve creating that many quests requires them to be dumbed down to the level of repetition, while only offering a freaking chat box for the 'story' for each and every one of them (thankfully phasing makes it at least somewhat tolerable) with gameplay that in other games would be delegated to a 'tutorial' status (except this 'tutorial' lasts for 50, sometimes even 80 levels), I can't say that's a goal SE should aim for.

I also find it hilarious how 'grinding' is considered to be some kind of mysterious, separate entity from activity X or Y. There's no fucking difference. You do the same tasks over and over again = grinding. Simple as that. They can try to spice up grinding by creating small goals to work for (essentially what leves and quests in other MMO's are) or by creating somewhat enjoyable gameplay mechanics or social space to hold your attention.

And the poorest form of 'spicing up' the game is the Chat Box. And the dialogue lines that complement them (HoHoHo adventurer, I needs me some Bat Wings!). A 3D game - a 3D experience. I don't want to read a goddamn book. If you can't achieve that, consider telling your story through other means that aren't as insulting and use other tricks to spice your game up instead.

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I'll agree that a simple text-window isn't always the most entertaining way to present a story. I like my cinematic cutscenes as much as the next guy. But not every single quest can have a cinematic cutscene with voice acting and unique motion capture animations. That would certainly be nice, but limitations on both development time and company budget simply make that unfeasible considering the number of quests that an MMO needs to have. A simple text-box may not be the most elegant way of presenting a story, but unless you can think of something else that allows the developers to churn out as many quests in a short amount of time, I don't see what else can be done.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

It isn't necessary for you people to have your fun, to also ruin our fun in the process. The leveling curve is hardly steep in this game if you want to play solo fine, but those who want to level faster and in a group should get that option too.

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and it isn't necessary for you to have your fun and also ruin ours.

some like party grinding and that should always be an option in any mmo, but some like questing and some like instances as a way to level. you saying grind only and remove this and that is no different then them saying do the same. i think most people in this thread just want multiple ways to level because not everyone likes to sit and pull spank the same mob over and over again for hours straight.

also, to say that party grinding was never used pre-patch is completely false as i knew people that would not run leves because they got better sp per hour staying in their grinding parties than to take the time to assemble and wait. we actually had people that capped battle classes in less than 2 weeks by straight grinding with no leves.

all i can say that at last those leves r gone, they were basically cheating anyways

As long as killing a mob gives XP, grinding is always an option, no matter how many quests the game wants to throw at you. And whether you grind alone or in a group is completely up to you.

There was no moment in the development of XIV where you couldn't just party up and go grind. There were definitely times where it wasn't the most efficient play, but you could do it for fun nontheless.

People who genuinely prefer mindless mob-grinding for hours always have that option. Providing quests for the other players who don't want to grind takes nothing away from the grind fans.

Not providing alternative content to grinding however leaves the people who are bored of grind in the cold.

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Originally Posted by Naqaj

People who genuinely prefer mindless mob-grinding for hours always have that option. Providing quests for the other players who don't want to grind takes nothing away from the grind fans

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Couldn't agree with this more.
I'm glad that they are moving the focus away just from Leves for gaining ranks; rank 40 leves from 40-50 was just /wrist. Encouraging people to party up and grind, fight different mobs in different areas etc is in my opinion (and it is only my opinion) a good thing.

I see the argument people have that party grinding requires no skill.
However, an example I have from pre-patch (1.18) was a LS member that did not have as much time to play had solo'd pretty much to 40ish on his Archer. He joined my boyfriend and I doing some leves and found that he had to play in a slightly different way in a group. Of course playing on his own he could happily unload all of his abilities, weapon skills etc with no consequence. In a party dynamic with hate to be controlled in certain situations he had to re-learn this and use other skills (e.g. enmity reduction). Turning a mob at the wrong time that does a nasty conal AoE move can cause deaths.

Ok, so most mobs you grind in a PT this not really a concern and they die pretty easy but my point is the concept of party play and what your job can do is (again I reiterate in my opinion) important.

Anway, I'm getting sidetracked! :) I am glad that they are introducing other ways in the game to gain SP and not just scrapping leves altogether. Recently I found myself without my usual "static" group and really wanted to get CON to 45. So I did a few resets on leves solo, and although even with favour I was only getting ~4,200-5,000 SP at the end of a leve, it was easy enough to do and I got from 43 to 45 over the course of a weekend ^^. If they took away leves completely I wouldn't have been able to do this- and due to RL I didn't have enough time at that point to go and just grind normal mobs (I needed to spend time AFK a bit). Options are always good and I do not agree with alienating the playerbase by enforcing a "grind only" rule on them.

I am glad that they are addressing the SP gain in leves and especially Behest though; only being able to do one Behest and hour for ~3,000ish SP is not a good incentive to actually do them ><

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Originally Posted by Naqaj

As long as killing a mob gives XP, grinding is always an option, no matter how many quests the game wants to throw at you. And whether you grind alone or in a group is completely up to you.

There was no moment in the development of XIV where you couldn't just party up and go grind. There were definitely times where it wasn't the most efficient play, but you could do it for fun nontheless.

People who genuinely prefer mindless mob-grinding for hours always have that option. Providing quests for the other players who don't want to grind takes nothing away from the grind fans.

Not providing alternative content to grinding however leaves the people who are bored of grind in the cold.

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No one is legitimately asking them not to provide alternative content except the OP who was obviously being sarcastic. We are just asking that they don't remove the option to group with other people in order to level our characters efficiently. There are several reasons why we need party based leveling options. Which they already confirmed they were developing with XP chains and improved party areas in 1.2.

• People may like leveling in a group more than grinding quests, but if grinding quests give more XP people are ultimately punishing themselves for partying to level their character. As Yoshi pointed out in his letter to the producer it takes effort to put a party together, and do anything as a group. That effort should be rewarded
• Even if grinding in parties gives more XP, as long as you can get decent XP from soloing and quests people who can't or don't like to join parties are still able to play solo with absolutely nothing lost from that experience.
• It's not about one thing being more fun than the other. It is about one thing having to do with a limitation the player puts on themselves (not willing to play with others) which makes that playstyle still viable even if it is not the most (otherwise) efficient method.
• Adding additional content so that solo players can play the game exclusively that way if they want is great, and no one would object to that. But removing the reward people get for leveling their characters together would be disastrous and severely limiting on the ways people can and will play the game. People should still benefit from and be encouraged to do things together in an MMO.