Combat Gameplay - Ninja

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Originally Posted by Radacci

But this isn't XI...XI doesn't have classes, XIV does. All classes are always available, you unlock the jobs.
Rogue is tied to Limsa, and has been existing as a hidden guild, all along; You join the Rogue Guild, lv up, and then you go to Yugiri, at lv 30, and become Ninja.
As a new player in 2.4, you might as well come directly from the Rogue guild. Would be totally retarded to lock it out behind 2.4 storyline, since you'd need to go through 2.0-2.4, to be able to play Rogue?? not gonna happen...

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Well, we know that the rogue guild is in limsa before 2.2 story, so it's most likely that it's already there when the we adventurers start the game. So we could in theory start as rogue and the ninja job is locked till at least 2.2 is cleared and Yugiri joins the group. (But doubt it's gonna happen since that would confuse new players and we know what Yoshida thinks about them)
FFXI was more simple for expansion pack jobs: a few quests to get to the new area, a quest or two to unlock the job and you're done. But FFXIV changes this a lot with the class -> job system

I can definitely see many bad players. Keeping track of the mudra combinations + cooldowns + boss mechanics is going to be difficult for some people

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Originally Posted by Radacci

But this isn't XI...XI doesn't have classes, XIV does. All classes are always available, you unlock the jobs.
Rogue is tied to Limsa, and has been existing as a hidden guild, all along; You join the Rogue Guild, lv up, and then you go to Yugiri, at lv 30, and become Ninja.
As a new player in 2.4, you might as well come directly from the Rogue guild. Would be totally retarded to lock it out behind 2.4 storyline, since you'd need to go through 2.0-2.4, to be able to play Rogue?? not gonna happen...

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it will happend, since the rogue guild knowledge it's tie to the story quest of the 2.2...make player be able to be ninja and rogue before will be dumb in many way, they respect the lore they create.
you can see the rogue/ninja like a tier 2 class/jobs, they have always talk of the tiers 2, meaning this jobs can't get it without level other jobs or you can't get it from the start. i will not even be surprise to see the black mage as one of the recquirement for the ninja.

i will go farer, i don't expect them to release the class from the expansion directly, they will probably too ask to reach a certain level in the story for get acces to them... why? Glamour, dyeing, mount,... a lot of content recquire to reach a certain level or point in the story for get unlocked. that the same principle. FF14 are not a game where you play only one class, then put some class behind story don't seems soo stupid, actually it's clever. it will make sure the person know enough the game mechanic for be able to play harder class.

I can see why you need to at least finish 2.2 main story. It's not that long and at least it'll reduce the amount of people playing NIN.

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Originally Posted by Kisshu

Well, we know that the rogue guild is in limsa before 2.2 story, so it's most likely that it's already there when the we adventurers start the game. So we could in theory start as rogue and the ninja job is locked till at least 2.2 is cleared and Yugiri joins the group. (But doubt it's gonna happen since that would confuse new players and we know what Yoshida thinks about them)
FFXI was more simple for expansion pack jobs: a few quests to get to the new area, a quest or two to unlock the job and you're done. But FFXIV changes this a lot with the class -> job system

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Well that's true. But it's not even certain that Yugiri herself, will be Ninja trainer? I'm quite sure both Rogue and Ninja, will be available from the get-go. But then again, you were locked down in starting nation, for a while...so we'll see.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

it will happend, since the rogue guild knowledge it's tie to the story quest of the 2.2...make player be able to be ninja and rogue before will be dumb in many way, they respect the lore they create.
you can see the rogue/ninja like a tier 2 class/jobs, they have always talk of the tiers 2, meaning this jobs can't get it without level other jobs or you can't get it from the start. i will not even be surprise to see the black mage as one of the recquirement for the ninja.

i will go farer, i don't expect them to release the class from the expansion directly, they will probably too ask to reach a certain level in the story for get acces to them... why? Glamour, dyeing, mount,... a lot of content recquire to reach a certain level or point in the story for get unlocked. that the same principle. FF14 are not a game where you play only one class, then put some class behind story don't seems soo stupid, actually it's clever. it will make sure the person know enough the game mechanic for be able to play harder class.

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No it isn't, Thancred was part of the Rogue guild, when he was younger. So the Rogue Guild has been around (in secret) since before the calamity. So there's no reason we wouldn't be able to join in from the start.
There was no mention of SCH or SMN, before they became available, and you could pick them up from the start. And it will be the same with ROG/NIN.
The only reason why ROG guild hasn't been available....is cause they hadn't developed it. Whenever they add it, ROG guild will be available; Because lorewise, the ROG guild has been around since before events in 1.0.
So when 2.4 comes, ROG will be available retroactively.
As for NIN...we'll see. I guess it's a possibility it will be locked behind story, but i doubt it. Probably we'll meet some placeholder NPC, or Yugiri isn't the actually NIN trainer to begin with.
There's that alchemist from Thavnair, that upgrades our relic weps, even though Thavnair isn't available to us; i'm sure some Doman NIN will appear in Eorzea, before Yugiri arrives, and this person trains us as NIN.

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Originally Posted by myahele

I can see why you need to at least finish 2.2 main story. It's not that long and at least it'll reduce the amount of people playing NIN.

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eeh, the main story 2.0-2,2 is long and annoying as hell!!! did you not do Titan part yet, or forget about it?
the entire story is just a long chain of long chains of annoying teleporting from grid->limsa, back and forth, over and over, and then some more.
and i dont see why they would lock nin behind 2.2 story, for the sake of reducing ninja bandwagoning...
there's gonna be a shitstorm with ppl complaining they cant play rog/nin. so im sure that's not gonna happen

it's you that seems to miss the point that it's totally normal, that you that simply don't want to have to do this. it's tie to the lore, before 2.2 the rogue guild was existing yes, but they was hidding, it's because of the event of the 2.2 that thancred accept to give you the information about it, it's because of the 2.2 that Yugiri will go train with them for open her dojo... then yes you will need to do this and believe me it's still far easier than some class quest of FF11... like the 1 hours to wait for get your katana as samurai or the fact to kill 100 monster with a old rusty sword for the dark knight.. and they was only a small part.

you are not in WoW where every class are open to you when you begin. here with the add of more class you will need to advance into the story for get acces to it. that not that strange and all you can say will not change this sole fact.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

it's you that seems to miss the point that it's totally normal, that you that simply don't want to have to do this. it's tie to the lore, before 2.2 the rogue guild was existing yes, but they was hidding, it's because of the event of the 2.2 that thancred accept to give you the information about it, it's because of the 2.2 that Yugiri will go train with them for open her dojo... then yes you will need to do this and believe me it's still far easier than some class quest of FF11... like the 1 hours to wait for get your katana as samurai or the fact to kill 100 monster with a old rusty sword for the dark knight.. and they was only a small part.

you are not in WoW where every class are open to you when you begin. here with the add of more class you will need to advance into the story for get acces to it. that not that strange and all you can say will not change this sole fact.

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While I don't share your opinion, it isn't a fact until SE says so.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

it's you that seems to miss the point that it's totally normal, that you that simply don't want to have to do this. it's tie to the lore, before 2.2 the rogue guild was existing yes, but they was hidding, it's because of the event of the 2.2 that thancred accept to give you the information about it, it's because of the 2.2 that Yugiri will go train with them for open her dojo... then yes you will need to do this and believe me it's still far easier than some class quest of FF11... like the 1 hours to wait for get your katana as samurai or the fact to kill 100 monster with a old rusty sword for the dark knight.. and they was only a small part.

you are not in WoW where every class are open to you when you begin. here with the add of more class you will need to advance into the story for get acces to it. that not that strange and all you can say will not change this sole fact.

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I already finished 2.3 story, so i wont be affected by a lockout anyway, so i'm not talking from my perspective.
Uhm, we do have every class and job available when we begin...like with ACN/SCH/SMN...so your facts, aren't really facts.
Also, NPCs will react to your progress. You know, like with 1.0 ppl getting different cutscenes than new players; New ppl can still get access to Rog/Nin, from the start, and get some other cutscenes.
And when they get to the 2.2 story part where you meet Yugiri, they might get a different reaction.
New players might meet Yugiri, before she makes an official appearance in 2.2. So just cause she doesn't appear in story before that, doesn't mean they can't make new ppl meet her before that.

the acn was given mostly for the player from the V1 to have something to do, mostly because we had the same class for ages and some had all the class to 50.
they will not loose time and reduce the lore to nothing simply for please you. it's easier to put it tie to the story quest.

other point, you simply ask for a whole retcon of the story so far. people meeting yugiri before 2.1? she just did arrive from doma that was in war, how can she be in doma and eorzea at the same time? seriously, you don't care for the lore, we have get it. sadly that not the case of SE, they will not give you acces to the class without advance into the story.

finally, it's greatly possible that the rogue class will be something create by the meeting of yugiri and the thief guild of limsa... the dojo will probably where you will have your class quest. it's said by Yugiri that she will learn the way of the thief guild and make her dojo for teach adventurer... how can you not understand the tie with our own rogue class.
class are not given freely from now, i think you need to get over it and understand it. for the 2.0 they will only add ninja, for the 3.0 we know 2 more class will come and i will not be surprise to see for the 3.x series a few class pop, this is them way to add class.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

While I don't share your opinion, it isn't a fact until SE says so.

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did they have give acces to the personal room to everybody from a guild? no you need a certain rank into your GC for get acces
did they have give acces to the hunt? no you need a certain condition for get it.
did they have give acces to the FC house directly? no you need the rank 6

they haven't give acces to anything since the release without give a quest, even simple stuff like the objective log, was a quest level 15...

don't expect them to offer the acces to the rogue without advance in the story, like said before it's the first Tiers 2 jobs.
i will not be surprise, if they don't ask to have Class to level 30 for get acces to the rogue itself!

FF14: ARR it's a game driven by the lore, you maybe don't care for the story, but they aren't, it's why we do get soo many quest fedex... because they use it for tell us a story.

Having played FFXI for 8 years, and having every new job available to me as soon as they were released (by just doing a small quest, though the ToAU quests for COR and such was a lil annoying), I don't see SE making ROG and NIN gated by anything other than a quest or two. Some people may actually buy the game new in order to play NIN, and thinking that SE will gate it to people who have to be lvl 50, beaten King Mog, and also beaten Leviathan HM is very, very unlikely. So many people will want to play these new classes that it makes no sense from a PR perspective to lock them to people who are already at max level and have beaten the main story quest up through 2.2. Think of how many disgruntled and upset new players (and old) there would be. Seeing as how new player friendly Yoshi is, I highly doubt this would happen - lore or not.