[dev1032] PUG skills singled out.

While it's true MP is manageable that's not the problem. The problem is it's unfair to put MP requirements on ONLY Pugilist when the attacks do nothing you can't achieve with other skills or abilities. Again Featherfoot gives you the same buff effect as Light Strike except it's much better however it requires no MP. Other classes have increased damage attacks that don't require any MP.

I recently ran into a problem fighting in the Darkhold where I could no longer participate in certain battle regimens because I had no MP and Flurry still cannot be used in them. War classes should not lose that much functionality when out of MP. You essentially then have to rely on auto-attack and the Flurry with its minute-long cooldown.

Agreed. I hate it - there is no reason for it to be there. We've become the red-headed step child of the game.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Since you want to talk LNC vs PGL:

Basic Skill Type----------Pugilist--------------Lancer

Attack + Effect------------Light Strike--------Heavy Thrust

Extra TP--------------------Pummel------------Full Thrust

Extra Damage----------------Flurry--------------Pierce

It all looks balanced to me.... until you suddenly add MP costs to Pummel and Light Strike for no apparent reason.

I suppose some visual aid may help.

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A half second bind is balanced with light strike? I didn't realize that light strike was completely useless.

And pierce does damage to an enemy in between you and your target, flurry gives an extra attack. I'd take flurry in 99% of all situations.

Honestly, I normally wouldn't have a problem with people trying to get a boost for the class I play. But I'm worried you are laying it on a little thick with the "woe is me", what I don't want is a restructure of these abilities that leaves us actually handicapped or "red headed stepchildren" (drama!) rather than something as trivial as a little MP.

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Originally Posted by hotah

Yes, lets have random people jump in and say "30 mp is not a big deal" some more.

-Yes, we understand "30 mp is manageable." The point is it puts a limitation on only one class' TP gaining skills. Its a matter of consistency.

-Yes, we're all aware of the spell Stygian Spikes.

-Yes, we realize alot of people don't care to read the discussion before posting.

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I'm not a random person, I'm a pugilist main and have been since Sept 22, 2010. I've been 50 since January, are you 50 pugilist yet on another character? Cause it looks to me like you are an archer who got pummel two weeks ago, has never played pugilist in darkhold or any difficult encounter where this stuff is actually an issue worth complaining about. Maybe you should stop talking for "us", because I for one don't agree with your level of panic over this, or your proposed solutions.

Add a very small amount of MP to second wind, problem solved. Best solution in the thread. Also rename it Chakra. With such a short recast Second Wind doesn't really fit anymore anyways. Oh and fix flurry in Battle Regimen please you forgot to turn off a switch somewhere when you changed it in 1.18.

Those MP costs are fine. You get free TP from them, good enough for me.

But for what Lancer does it makes sense and is a damage increasing ability. Lancers have a focus on pierce based attacks, Pugilists have a focus on single target attacks.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

I'm not a random person, I'm a pugilist main and have been since Sept 22, 2010. I've been 50 since January, are you 50 pugilist yet on another character? Cause it looks to me like you are an archer who got pummel two weeks ago, has never played pugilist in darkhold or any difficult encounter where this stuff is actually an issue worth complaining about. Maybe you should stop talking for "us", because I for one don't agree with your level of panic over this, or your proposed solutions.

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First off, who's panicking? I'm asking for a valid reason to these MP values to be there. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme nor reason for it. My only proposed solution is to remove the MP value and bring it inline with the other similar abilities in game.

But about me being an archer main... yeah, that has alot to do with my powers of observation. You're absolutely correct: I have not had Pummel nearly long enough to realize exactly how MP on the skill is justified. You win.

If you'd like to know my favorite color, it's red. I am not sure if that has any relevance to this topic either, but give it a shot.

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Originally Posted by Hotohori

I don't understand the reasoning behind those MP costs on those skills either. But if it makes any pugilists feel better, Close Shot and Light Shot share a reuse timer which pretty much gives archers only Light and Heavy Shot. The range requirement for using Close Shot makes it not even worth a space in an action bar now, even though it is free of cost to equip.

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I'd like to point out that ARC autoattack is close-range, Close Shot is mid-range, and Light Shot is long-range. Now heres something good to know, if its viable to work in mid-range, then you can use Close Shot as your normal attack. BUT you can also stack arrows with Multishot while your doing Close Shot. Meaning you can still do your Multishot+Multishot+Buff+Light Shot, just with a few Close Shots inbetween the Multishots while you wait on its CD timer. ARC is still OP :P

And yes, MP cost on PUG attacks is retarded. Although i haven't really played as PUG since patch, so i cant really make a good argument why/why not.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

A half second bind is balanced with light strike? I didn't realize that light strike was completely useless.

And pierce does damage to an enemy in between you and your target, flurry gives an extra attack. I'd take flurry in 99% of all situations.

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While I agree Light Strike is better than Heavy thrust, I gotta point out that 1 Lancer attack is about the same damage if not more than 1 Pugilist attack with 2 hits. So generally speaking Pierce will do more damage than Flurry and can hit every enemy in an enemy party if positioned correctly. Also from my own testing as both LNC and PUG 50, Full Thrust grants a little more tp than Pummel (although Pummel does a little more damage).

Personally I don't mind the mp on Light Strike, I don't think it should cost mp.... but I don't mind it. Mainly because it provides a buff. The mp cost on Pummel however is ridiculous, it's literally no better than Full Thrust.

I like the idea of Second Wind restoring a little mp too. They could also just raise the base mp on PUG by a little. It's manageble and all, but having to pop ethers is just lame.....

I don't really think having the mp costs on those skills makes the class in any way harder to play, just makes it different (and less fun for me).

not happy with the mp cost? 60 sec recast for everything and take it away, bet u're gonna like it more

Flurry already has a 60 second recast. In fact all the recasts are now comparable to attacks from other classes, except Pugilists also have MP costs. Try again.