Men in Dresses

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Originally Posted by Shioban

Yes it's 2014.

Give me ANY city in the world that has a base-average, even a small minority of men who wear womens clothes on a regular basis.
Because that would be the developers consideration.

(Not to mention we're sitting in a loose Renaissance Fantasy Era)

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So you are saying that women should ONLY wear dresses ever in this game? Huh?No?

I'm glad I'm not the one living with such conflicting double standards in my head =)
Your vision of history seems very pick and choose like that of another crazybonkers extremist group I can think of...

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Originally Posted by Seif

So you are saying that women should ONLY wear dresses ever in this game? Huh?No?

I'm glad I'm not the one living with such conflicting double standards in my head =)
Your vision of history seems very pick and choose like that of another crazybonkers extremist group I can think of...

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At no point did I EVER say "Only women should wear dresses".


And what double standards? Please do point it out in Black and White before throwing baseless conjecture at me.
Really, I want to know. Don't hesitate to say it in plain English to me.

All I said was truth. During the Renaissance Era men did not wear womens clothing, and women did not wear mens clothing.
However in the modern world women wear mens clothing, yet men still don't wear womens clothing as a norm. THIS IS A FACT, NOT AN OPINION.

The developers would always take into consideration the modern world around them as a norm as well as the era they're basing the game off before anything else was even considered. Some modern themes are added into Eorzea that fit into its context. (Swimsuits, Insutrial Technology, Modern-Day Language/Communication Styles).


I'd actually like to Ammend the "Anywhere in the world", the player base for the game is mainly in the western world, therefore 'Western Standards' is what I was hinting at.





I can understand this was never going to be a popular opinion. But comparing my basic-facts to a religious organisation or the KKK is VERY extreme or "Die CIS scum" because I didn't dance to your tune is frankly down-right insulting.


You're clearly miss interpreting what I said for the sake of it here, and taking it as a personal attack.
SIMPLY because I didn't go "Yeah you go! Wooo! Add it! xoxox!"

Please actually read this very carefully as a mature adult for a moment.

I stated the fact that almost the entirety of your average male populus in the world do-not-wear-dresses in a modern western society or even more importantly during the Early Renaissance era which this game seems to be placed thematically.

And following on this point as to why the developers wouldn't even have considered making a male version of the dresses. These are developers who live in modern-day Japan, they are aware these things exist, and that's what people enjoy. But as with a lot of things people enjoy it's still a very small batch of people.

You as a developer have to consider "Would adding this cause more harm that good"?

"But it wouldn't affect other people if they didn't want to do it!?!"

Wrong. If people can see it, it affects them. If I stand naked outside someone's house, it's going to bother them.
Applying the "It won't bother other people if I do it, I just want the option for equality!" logic, doesn't apply to every situation.


Please think of this logically from a developers point-of-view. If they feel it would be a fun addition that the majority of players would agree with, have a good time, a laugh and long-term enjoyment out of it, then they would add it. Sensitive subjects can be quite damaging in terms of the media. It would take one bad addition (not saying this is a major one) to have a bad media knock-on effect. Sensitive subjects and controversial additions are always carefully considerer (As Yoshida himself said)



You can kick and scream all you want.
You can call me bigoted.
You can call me whatever you want.
You can deny the basic facts I've pointed out.

But in the end I'm only trying to point out why they probably won't do it without good reason.


TL;DR

Go back and read it. Or if you're really stubborn;

Stop trying to make what I typed as something personal. Using "Double Standards" because I didn't agree with your opinion is a complete misuse of the term "Double Standards".

If your argument is basically "not many men wear dresses in real life", well, last time I checked there weren't many cat people, monsters or people throwing fireballs around in real life either.

As much as I'd like a big male Roe in a pink frilly dress, I can't see this actually happening. Ever. People in this thread have already (patiently) explained why.

I see it happening. The naysayers are fools if they think other very popular games do not already do this. Men in World of warcraft can put on dresses. You dont see wow get bashed up because of this. Oh and It was a feature within the game since it came out. Plus we do have a few dresses already. There are a kilt or 2 and skirts. The chest piece of light looks like a darn dress in its own way. So yep if other games do it and its not even thought of, a few extra tight ass people here need to loosen up and stop making dimonds every time the fidget and reply to a thread.

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Originally Posted by BearGrylls

If your argument is basically "not many men wear dresses in real life", well, last time I checked there weren't many cat people, monsters or people throwing fireballs around in real life either.

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Yet again, missing the point.

There's a balance of "Realism vs. Fantasy". Varying races in fantasy settings is a normal occurance (Elves, Orcs, Beastmen).
Men in dresses isn't, even in an average fantasy setting now that I think about it.

You can't compare the two, that's absurd.

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Originally Posted by Nuinn

As much as I'd like a big male Roe in a pink frilly dress, I can't see this actually happening. Ever. People in this thread have already (patiently) explained why.

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But sadly the "I'm being oppressed, don't you oppress me" will just get thrown in the faces of anyone who disagrees or provides any basic reasoning as to why. (Even if it's not an opinion that was posted)

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Originally Posted by Shadowzanon

I see it happening. The naysayers are fools if they think other very popular games do not already do this. Men in World of warcraft can put on dresses. You dont see wow get bashed up because of this. Oh and It was a feature within the game since it came out. Plus we do have a few dresses already. There are a kilt or 2 and skirts. The chest piece of light looks like a darn dress in its own way. So yep if other games do it and its not even thought of, a few extra tight ass people here need to loosen up and stop making dimonds every time the fidget and reply to a thread.

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I already pointed out kilts and skirts in context are normal actually (even in real-life) and a Renaissance setting.
Men wearing "Corset Style Bodice Chemise Skirts" is not. The style of clothing the OP is suggestion is a WORLD apart from a kilt or a small skirt attached to the bottom of a body-piece.

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Originally Posted by Shadowzanon

Men in World of warcraft can put on dresses. You dont see wow get bashed up because of this. Oh and It was a feature within the game since it came out.

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Nope, those are robes. What the OP is requesting is a completely different ball game here and you'd be a fool to think otherwise.
(As for the WoW gear go back and have another look, they're all robes to fit the low-poly design of the game which restricts gear design)

If however you can find a clearly female dress that has been fitted for a male character, I'll eat my hat. Okay?

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Originally Posted by Shadowzanon

The chest piece of light looks like a darn dress in its own way. So yep if other games do it and its not even thought of, a few extra tight ass people here need to loosen up and stop making dimonds every time the fidget and reply to a thread.

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That's the warrior of light armour set based off the original warrior of light, I wouldn't call it a dress because of the slightly draping cloth.
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...r_of_Light.png

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Originally Posted by Shadowzanon

, a few extra tight ass people here need to loosen up and stop making dimonds every time the fidget and reply to a thread.

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Calm down.

Some people pointed out the reason why the developers wouldn't add it, other simply expressed that they didn't want it.
They have JUST as much right to express that they don't want it, as much as you do in requesting it.

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Originally Posted by Shadowzanon

I see it happening. The naysayers are fools if they think other very popular games do not already do this. Men in World of warcraft can put on dresses. You dont see wow get bashed up because of this. Oh and It was a feature within the game since it came out. Plus we do have a few dresses already. There are a kilt or 2 and skirts. The chest piece of light looks like a darn dress in its own way. So yep if other games do it and its not even thought of, a few extra tight ass people here need to loosen up and stop making dimonds every time the fidget and reply to a thread.

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Not with the neckline as it is on those screenshots. Skirt, kilt, tunic, robe, coat =/= dress/frock/gown. Another point missed is that it's not about being tight-assed, at all.

To play both sides of this argument... I'm gay, have several trans (to varying degrees) friends, and many who do drag weekly if not more often; I see no problem with dresses for men. The above poster is also correct that it is already done.

However, I also see the world around me, and putting something so controversial to so many into the game is not the most sound marketing strategy. I could care less if the devs do or do not support gender equality, gay rights, trans rights, etc; the point is, the majority of the world's population would double-take, if not balk, at a man in a dress. To make a specific effort to "neutralize" clothing would be a controversial move. If they later add dresses that just happen to show the same models on men, great! I think that's what WoW did. I am not a real WoW vet, having only played to max level once or twice, but I believe that the clothes with gender-neutral models (as opposed to a more robe-like male appearance) were all event items, i.e. from Easter, or general vanity items, i.e. wedding dresses.

This topic started out about event dresses--which I support--but has kind of transformed into a general "LET US WEAR ALL CLOTHING WITH THE SAME MODELS" thread. I support the former, and would like to live in a world where the latter is acceptable, it isn't.

Also, I think most truly transgender players have simply created a character of the gender with which they (best) identify. So please, for their sake, don't make this an issue of their rights where it's more about men wanting to do drag. Again, there's no problem with drag, but I think we can all agree that it's hardly the most pressing issue in XIV.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

I'd actually like to Ammend the "Anywhere in the world", the player base for the game is mainly in the western world, therefore 'Western Standards' is what I was hinting at.

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I don't want to pick your post apart, but you might want to nullify your ammendment[sic]. That statement couldn't be more wrong unless Japan happened to shift a hemisphere or two while I wasn't looking.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

Derp.

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In wow there are many crafted dresses including a wedding dress that both male and females can use, there are tons of them and nope they are not robes, kilts ect.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Category:Dresses there is no gender lock for these dresses. No one complained about them and many have been around since 2004.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

Men wearing "Corset Style Bodice Chemise Skirts" is not. The style of clothing the OP is suggestion is a WORLD apart from a kilt or a small skirt attached to the bottom of a body-piece.

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Male characters in WoW can wear the Lovely Dress, which is decidedly "feminine" in design.