Minor tank balancing ideas. (WAR & PLD)

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Originally Posted by eagledorf

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Shield swipe being on GCD makes it less useful, if Shield Swipe is off-GCD, it'd certainly be more useful, currently, a WAR have the option of throwing out good DPS or being tanky simply by the choice of skills to use, PLDs don't have that option to do so, the most we can do is Sword Oath + FoF which honestly is nowhere near the full DPS output of a WAR, there is little doubt that WARs can throw out a good deal more DPS than a PLD.


Well, I'm not saying that PLDs needs to be buffed or WARs nerfed, I'm fine with PLDs to having the DPS potential of WARs but I just feel that PLDs needs a larger repertoire of actively usable skills to make the class more fun, as of now, PLDs are immensely boring to play. I also feel that tweaking some of the existing skills e.g making Shield Swipe off-GCD but with 2s CD in between and having a tad more AoE skills can also be useful without breaking the current paradigm.

Shield Swipe is an average potency increase for that GCD over the Halone combo. It's 7 extra potency or something totally minuscule like that, but still a potency increase.

The numbers I've seen for Sword Oath actually have all put PLD slightly above WAR, even with Infuriate->Unchained->Berserk/IR->IB->Defiance off, but you'll believe what you've seen and I'll believe what Ｉ've seen so it's not really worth discussing.

As for PLD being boring...well I think the class is different to play by design. I personally use every one of my skills on PLD pretty frequently. I kind of wish we got more useful cross-class skills myself (Stoneskin is awesome, but I have a slot that I just don't know what to do with)

Edit: As I'm posting, on my server there are three groups recruiting for coil. Of those, two insist on PLDs over WARs and the last one doesn't care. This is not to suggest a balance problem, but presented as evidence that if any bias exists at all, it's in favor of PLD.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eagledorf

Edit: As I'm posting, on my server there are three groups recruiting for coil. Of those, two insist on PLDs over WARs and the last one doesn't care. This is not to suggest a balance problem, but presented as evidence that if any bias exists at all, it's in favor of PLD.

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You guys...we're all on the same server :)

My static seems to be very 2.0. I don't know if we'll ever try a Warrior tank in any of our T1 - T5 runs, because we're very used to our own strategies, which usually involve 2 Paladins. If anything, people who are more in favour of PLD still retain the 2.0 mindset.

Shield Bash:
Delivers an attack with a potency of 1/2 of Block Strength. (Off Global Cooldown, no TP cost.)

that skill is already useless and u want it useless even more?

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Originally Posted by juniglee

You guys...we're all on the same server :)

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ಠ,ಠ

You win, though I'm not sure what, exactly. You are probably correct that many strategies were worked out when PLD was the only viable tank and have not changed now that WAR is also viable, though I can't actually think of any that require one tank or the other.

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Originally Posted by Dhex

They equalize...

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Tho the math looks logical on the paper, in real fight situation.. and In the long run the % reduction will win.

Even in a scenario where a mobs uses 2 attack with 1 sec in between....just enough to throw a single cure.


PLD:

Monster does 5000dmg.

PLD(6000HP) = remaining PLD(2000HP)

Healer cures for 3000hp > PLD(5000HP)

Monster Attacks 5000HP (Immediately following one cure).

PLD(5000HP) > PLD(1000HP).


WAR:

Monster does 5000dmg.

WAR(7500HP) = remaining WAR(2500HP)

Healer cures for 3000hp > WAR(5500HP)

Monster does 5000. (Immediately following one cure).

WAR(5500HP) > WAR(500HP)


Of course, i could have tweaked the numbers so the WAR would die and PLD would live with some HP.

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Originally Posted by Synapse

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If you're giving the PLD a 3000 cure, you need to give the WAR a 1.2x3000=3600 cure due to defiance healing bonus. Your numbers end up as:

PLD:

Monster does 5000dmg.

PLD(6000HP) = remaining PLD(2000HP) ~33.33% HP remains

Healer cures for 3000hp > PLD(5000HP)

Monster Attacks 5000HP (Immediately following one cure).

PLD(5000HP) > PLD(1000HP). ~16.67% HP remains


WAR:

Monster does 5000dmg.

WAR(7500HP) = remaining WAR(2500HP) ~33.33% HP remains

Healer cures for 3600hp > WAR(6100HP)

Monster does 5000. (Immediately following one cure).

WAR(6100HP) > WAR(1100HP) ~14.67% HP remains

As a side note: if you heal the PLD to full from here, the WAR is left with 7100/7500 HP, or 94.67% HP remaining. If the fight continues this way, the gap gets wider. From my experience, however, it just means it's easier to overcure a PLD. Also, IB does a really, really good job of helping to close that gap.