Lack of End Game Content

It might be interesting for content that would need farmed pops, if there was a random chance that a gatherer could be the one to acquire it, not just via battle. Imagine building a kirin pop set like in XI, but one starter pop would have to be crafted, one pop would have to be fished, and two other starter pops from normal battle content. Not unlike how the S rank in North Shroud is technically spawned by someone fishing up a specific fish.

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

Kinda interesting that you picked Dark Souls and Monster Hunter... Really liked the Souls series myself, Hard as nails, easy to pick up, and fair. Monster Hunter never really could get into thanks to the mega information dump had to get over at the start. Also the dynasty warrior games while fun for a bit, do get boring quickly.

So content wise, maybe more stuff on the scale of the Odin fate(at ARR iLvls), but also tied in with potentially a couple other fate chains/hunts or the like, but also hidden away and tricky to trigger. I'd probably go with some kind of unique style of re-spawn timer for it as do want it easily available for those that figure it out, but maybe not quickly farm able.

The really interesting thing is, I can see most players enjoying all of this style of content... yet more effort was spent trying to say develop more content for Side A or Side B instead of trying to figure out what kind of elements might be best used to develop content both sides could enjoy at a variety of skill levels.

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Not really the biggest fan of world bosses lol they always end up being a zerg fest.

To be honest, Consumption and competition is one of the biggest issues with content like this. I was hoping for Open world dungeons. There actually was an interview about this a while back with Yoshi P, it was mentioned that the diffulty of creating something like open world dungeons is the compotition factor, as you will now have players will be competing for resources, I.E mobs and spawn timers. So they would basically have too simultaneously release a large amount of these Open world dungeons.

I was thinking maybe they could open older dungeons that could support multiple parties at once. Like for example Braflox, Halitali, Toto Rak etc. They could place harder mobs that would require multiple hunts. They could even do High end Treasure maps(which reward higher amounts of tome) and Hunts in these areas. In order to avoid competition for NM'S they could do what BDO does for example, you are given some item and have to go to a specific location and spawn the boss using these items. They could also have locked boss areas and use key items which you have to find in the dungeon, with that item you and your party can enter a instanced area specifically for the boss encounter.

After looking over this thread, I think it's funny how many things have been ruled out of the "end game content" list that are clearly things created to do when there is no new iLvl gear to grind. Like Choco racing, or triple triad, or majong....or anything else. This game has a ton of repeatable content that can be done solo or in groups. I don't think the problem is with the game. I think it's your definition.

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

Though why do you really seek out the challenge and want to improve? Is it because you take pride in your play, or you want to do better than some of the other players you hear about? Out of all the others, you are the only one that did not mention anything that drastically jumped out more on the competative side, other than compare to your superiors. And many not only want to learn from their superiors, they want to surpass them.



And LadyKairi is a fine example of why a handful of dungeons or raids should be designed to be released at an initial dificulty of savage/ultimate, and then retuned for the other dificulties. Titania - Titania Ex, and Innocence-Innocence Ex kinda showcase this slightly. To me, it seems like Titania was done from low to high, where as Innocence was done from High to low. If LadyKairi has done both, I'm curious as to which they she preferred.

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My desire to improve comes from my early days here, really. When I first started out, I really didn't know how to play an MMO, or any game really, well. I didn't really realize it until I came here. I used to get berated for being "bad" and it made me feel terrible. So much so I chose to improve and not be considered 'bad'. Then I kinda just got addicted to trying to optimize, and now it's just habit. It helps me to feel better about myself and its something I pride myself. Plus its something to do besides just clearing a fight and simply farming it.

I found the normal modes quite easy. Both extreme modes have their challenges. In Titania, mechanics were pretty easy/self explanatory. There is wayyyyy too much healer downtime imo. People mostly had an issue passing the dps check. Innocence, however, was a headache for me. Now that I've practiced it more, I have it down. It's just that darn mechanic that targets two random people with sword aoes, then add the rotating floor aoe on top of it... oof. It makes me feel "nooby" since I had such a hard time. I would get myself killed every time, because I didn't go away far enough to dodge safely. I enjoyed how Innocence at least seemed to have more random aspects to it, and I really thought the star mech was interesting. Innocence has been far more enjoyable for me than Titania mechanic wise. That's just how I view them personally.

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Originally Posted by savageink

After looking over this thread, I think it's funny how many things have been ruled out of the "end game content" list that are clearly things created to do when there is no new iLvl gear to grind. Like Choco racing, or triple triad, or majong....or anything else. This game has a ton of repeatable content that can be done solo or in groups. I don't think the problem is with the game. I think it's your definition.

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Ive done all these things....its fluff bro im not here to sugar coat anything. Ive done all choco racing love triple triad (even tho not many people play it sadly). This is about what can i do with the character i spent time powering up in a end game battle setting. No disrespect to anyone but is this really that hard to comprehend or is it truly not being explained thoroughly enough??

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Originally Posted by Klb600

Not really the biggest fan of world bosses lol they always end up being a zerg fest.

To be honest, Consumption and competition is one of the biggest issues with content like this. I was hoping for Open world dungeons. There actually was an interview about this a while back with Yoshi P, it was mentioned that the diffulty of creating something like open world dungeons is the compotition factor, as you will now have players will be competing for resources, I.E mobs and spawn timers. So they would basically have too simultaneously release a large amount of these Open world dungeons.

I was thinking maybe they could open older dungeons that could support multiple parties at once. Like for example Braflox, Halitali, Toto Rak etc. They could place harder mobs that would require multiple hunts. They could even do High end Treasure maps and Hunts in these areas. In order to avoid competition for NM'S they could do what BDO does for example, you are given some item and have to go to a specific location and spawn the boss using these items. They could also have locked boss areas and use key items which you have to find in the dungeon, with that item you and your party can enter a instanced area specifically for the boss encounter.

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More kinda like combining the FFXI Beastmen Strongholds and their BCNM with an adjacent zone. Jugner Forest, the orc stonghold Davoi, and its BCNM for example? I'm actually kinda surprised they didn't go this route already as they kinda seemed to almost have this set up in the initial ARR zones. And there are a few areas else where that hint at a similar potential concept too. Just add in a couple different BCNM areas if needed if want to vary the location the players go for boss fights. It would bring back some of the open world bit that most of the more modern MMOs are missing.

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Originally Posted by savageink

After looking over this thread, I think it's funny how many things have been ruled out of the "end game content" list that are clearly things created to do when there is no new iLvl gear to grind. Like Choco racing, or triple triad, or majong....or anything else. This game has a ton of repeatable content that can be done solo or in groups. I don't think the problem is with the game. I think it's your definition.

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For me thats not endgame content. It's I just want to be on and socialize content. There are plenty of DoH/DoL jobs i'm likely to go level before I go putz around in the gold saucer, but that is just me. There is nothing wrong with the gold saucer content, but if that is what I am down to for content and not socializing with people, I'm very likely to game hop or just call it a night.

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Originally Posted by savageink

After looking over this thread, I think it's funny how many things have been ruled out of the "end game content" list that are clearly things created to do when there is no new iLvl gear to grind. Like Choco racing, or triple triad, or majong....or anything else. This game has a ton of repeatable content that can be done solo or in groups. I don't think the problem is with the game. I think it's your definition.

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Content that can be done throughout the game is not end game content. Just apply the concept anecdotally - saying you're indulging in "end game content" at level 20 on day 2, when you're job or character is far away from the end game, is a silly idea. You can't change the definition of a term so that it better matches your world view.

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Originally Posted by MonteCristo

Ive done all these things....its fluff bro im not here to sugar coat anything. Ive done all choco racing love triple triad (even tho not many people play it sadly). This is about what can i do with the character i spent time powering up in a end game battle setting. No disrespect to anyone but is this really that hard to comprehend or is it truly not being explained thoroughly enough??

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it's that you are just arguing for more hamster wheel. I need to make my character more powerful so i do stuff, but the rewards are always to make the character even more powerful. So you need new things to show how powerful you are, which also need to have rewards that make you more powerful, ad infinitum...

hamster wheel.

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Originally Posted by Kaylessa

Content that can be done throughout the game is not end game content. Just apply the concept anecdotally - saying you're indulging in "end game content" at level 20 on day 2, when you're job or character is far away from the end game, is a silly idea. You can't change the definition of a term so that it better matches your world view.

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This. I'll never understand how the words "END GAME" get misconstrued for content people can do on day 1 of the game.

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Originally Posted by savageink

it's that you are just arguing for more hamster wheel. I need to make my character more powerful so i do stuff, but the rewards are always to make the character even more powerful. So you need new things to show how powerful you are, which also need to have rewards that make you more powerful, ad infinitum...

hamster wheel.

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If you actually took the time to read the thread, you might have picked up most of them don't want the hamster wheel. They seem to want something with some challenge and longevity to it. There are a few other aspects that each would also like, but the key elements are challenge and longevity. Something more in tune to a player willing to dedicate a bit more time to the game. Any gear that comes from the content is just an added perk.