Confirmation of Uncapped Raids. Confirmation of a terrible decision.

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Originally Posted by Rinsui

And for a long time: Emperors Hairpin, Peacock Charm, Cross-Counters, Leaping Boots... all conditional items, but for a long time, they could be the best in certain situations. Hell, even i know that, and I quit FFXI, like, 5 years ago?

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Oh look at that, all open world, uncapped content if I remember correctly. Thanks for proving my point.

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Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra

Well we can't compare the 2 points for points. But the CoP rings were a reward considered an accomplishement at end game. Yes ok you get it at the end of the chain, but you are capped all the way to it. That content even if it was in CoP, was still good and relevant to get when they released ToAU and then WoTG. A lot of items from BCNMs were also good at end game.

In games like WoW, tell me who gives a shit about someone getting their T1 to T8 armors. They only reason to go back to some dungeons/raids in that game is for novelty items like mounts and pets. Which they are not an accomplishment to get anymore because it's easy to get.

Anyways, I don't want to turn this into a "let's compate games" thread, but you cannot say that FFXI had a very nice horizontal character development since it stayed at level 75 for such a long time and every expansion, while bringing new end game gears did not make older gears that much less good, just different.

I am also out of new arguments and think everything has been said and that the devs will be aware of this thread and I don't think there is much need to argue anymore.

I'll stress the fact that no cap on those (and upcoming) dungeons just make them shallow and nothing can be built on it. If that is their intent, then I don't care for the to stay uncapped if they are not rewarding any type of lasting gears/fame/rep/items/currency.

That said, if they are just shallow content for SP, not rewarding any type of lasting gears/fame/rep/items/currency, I really hope for them to make more content that have some depths to them and that things like story missions and fights are capped and must be completed under cap in order to progress.

So both type of content can be viable, as long as one does not set a predecedent and norm for any upcoming content.

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We both know that we are already agree on CoP content so I will kinda steer clear of that one. As for BCNMs, are these really the best example? Were the items won from them desired more for the rarity of the drops than for the actual challenge of the BCNM?

in Phantasy star online, beating challenge mode was more of an achievement than beating regular mode, or even getting level 100 although the game would limit your max level to like 40 for the event. It also required more skill. It also gave you an item that was of value for a great many levels which you could name/customize.

And in all honest getting 50 is highly unlikely to require more skill than beating this dungeon at an appropriate level will demonstrate.

being level has shown patience, but getting level 50 required no more skill than getting level 30. you can do more things, and adapt more, but no content that gives you level gains requires you to use any great skill.

i rem a 49 taru doing behests, dying in battle, going after yellow monsters, using aoe in dangerous areas. level has virtually no correlation to skill.

that may be part of the problem with the game. Maybe they should add limit levels that require you to beat hard content, lol im sure that would be hated by all. but it would be interesting

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Oh look at that, all open world, uncapped content if I remember correctly. Thanks for proving my point.

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-> Yes. Nobody said everything in FFXI was perfect

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Too late, troll ;)

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

I wouldn't classify rank 60 content as mid-level content for what was a rank 75 max level. Even so, it seemed that the rarity of the kraken club is what made it so big, not necessarily the challenge of the BCNM. Would that be accurate?

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The rarity and the uses people put it to. Dark knights 2hour adds a set damage to each swing whilst losing health for each hit, it meant alot of healing but it was a effective way of taking down some of the hardest nms. SE chose to put Souleater(drk 2hr) resistance on absolute virtue(ffxi's hardest monster for a long time) because players finally managed to beat it with a large number of drks weilding them.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

We both know that we are already agree on CoP content so I will kinda steer clear of that one. As for BCNMs, are these really the best example? Were the items won from them desired more for the rarity of the drops than for the actual challenge of the BCNM?

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Maybe they were, that is not the point. I don't think anyone here suggested that FFXI was perfect and without flaw. Those BCNMs could have been dungeons (like the ones being put in FFXIV) and since the challenge would have been greater and the effort to go through longer and greater, the drop could have been more frequent.

So yes you are right in saying that the rarity of the item made it valuable altho it was better than other items as well. But taking the BCNMs concept and putting it to dungeons use would be far superior than just shallow dungeons for SP... They can improve the leves and behest and make party grind viable for SP and give dungeons a real meaning, therefore requiring a cap to prevent abuse.

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Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

it seemed that the rarity of the kraken club is what made it so big, not necessarily the challenge of the BCNM. Would that be accurate?

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Usefulness of the Kraken Club made it valuable.
Rarity of Kraken Club made it valuable.

The challenge of the BCNM increased the risk of doing it, which is necessary to have if you want to earn as good an item as the Kraken Club and maintain proper risk vs reward balance.

Hard content should be rewarded with good items.

Good items should have to be earned through effort and skill.

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Maybe they were, that is not the point. I don't think anyone here suggested that FFXI was perfect and without flaw. Those BCNMs could have been dungeons (like the ones being put in FFXIV) and since the challenge would have been greater and the effort to go through longer and greater, the drop could have been more frequent.

So yes you are right in saying that the rarity of the item made it valuable altho it was better than other items as well. But taking the BCNMs concept and putting it to dungeons use would be far superior than just shallow dungeons for SP... They can improve the leves and behest and make party grind viable for SP and give dungeons a real meaning, therefore requiring a cap to prevent abuse.

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Amen. And by the way: Rarity also adds to the challenge. In a very, very stupid way, but it does.

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Good items should have to be earned through effort and skill.

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And for god's sake, please make sure that effort is not just time spent with mindless grinding, but actual skill.

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Originally Posted by Rinsui

Oh, and by the way, I have a question:
You seem to agree that doing a LV 30 dungeon with the help of a LV 50 character should not be rewarded in any way. Or is there another way to interpret your statement? O.o/?

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I have already answered this question, the fact that you can't find it ends our discussion and debate.

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Originally Posted by Rinsui

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Too late, troll ;)

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Lol. Go back and edit your posts all you want.