Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

Almost got the weather Liberator last night ;;

Settled for weathered Burtgang for my Pally, since I could never get the damn t5 sword. I don't have enough good accuracy gear to use Lib in coil, and I'm 3 books away from GB Animus so I figured I'd upgrade from the Curtana Zenith. So now I have a nice PLD, Str spec War, and a bossy MNK, DRG and SMN.

Come at me bro! xD

DRG is still my first <3. So don't worry!

********** PVP POST **********

On the subject of Dragoon's and Frontlines, I've come up with a pvp gearset which is heavily focused on det + crit.

Since any item ilvl80 or above doesn't matter because it gets scaled down and accuracy doesn't matter in frontlines this is a set will give us the most det + crit.

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/N2TZ

Since the pvp ability Impulse Rush waves directional requirements, is it worth using a chaos thrust combo or just use it for heavy thrust and stick to phleb + thrust combo?

General Tips:

Save spineshatter & dragonfire dive as gap closer's.
When facing another physical dps, popping keen flurry and bloodbath really helps.
Elusive jump removes status effects like heavy
PVP skill weapon throw is amazing, max rank this and use it to stop fleeing players.
If a player is running away from you, don't be afraid to pop sprint. Using invigorate or enliven will mean you restore your tp and can attack on the move.

If anyone has some other good pvp tips, please do share.

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Originally Posted by Hakmatic

Im not mis informed, my numbers dont lie.

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If you wouldn't mind sharing, what kind of numbers do you get on T6-9 as DRG? From pencil and paper calculations, of course.

I'm currently of the mindset that BLM > DRG (not counting the buff DRG gives to BRD) in equal gear if BLM can minimize movement, based on my results and numbers, but admittedly the DRGs I play with aren't fully maxed out (close though).

T6 430, t7 varies on shrieks and voices highest achieved 412, t8 440-460 with mechanics, t9 highest clear dps 390 all of this is at item lvl 104 im 106 now maybe ill see better numbers.

Those T6-T7 numbers seem a bit high for i104 but possible I guess. Your T8 seems a bit more farfetched with that iLVL and doing mechanics, but it might be possible with really, really good Dreadnaught milking. Your T9 numbers are simply inflated though, perhaps due to your pencil and paper not taking downtime into consideration. I've never seen anyone do much beyond 330, and this is clearing around the 2nd Divebomb and pushing before 4th meteor phase 1. Are you using the pencil and paper provider called ACT?

Yeah i am and i could have anyone on my raid team tell you those numbers arent inflated.

One of two things, in regards to your T9:

Your LB damage is getting counted into your damage

or

The downtime is not getting counted. By default pen and paper won't count downtime and super inflate the number unless you take your pencil and make the settings not count downtime for 30 seconds to a minute.

I dont lb and if it bothers you that i can do high dps ill stream my t9 for you next time .

It doesn't bother me one bit, but I just think your settings are giving a number in this case that most people wouldn't compare their number with. That being said, sure, stream away.

update 0 accuracy set to include ST headpiece and Ramuh ring?

So...with a huge influx of sands/oils from hunts....what should we be using them on?

I have the i100 chest from new CT (never got sold body, upgraded from wyrm's..) and am getting lib this week from T7 tome, used a sand on my astrum hose already, have another for lib when I get it....but lucked my way into a 3rd from book drops.

What should I used this 3rd one on? o.o; Suggestions?

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Originally Posted by Hakmatic

T6 430, t7 varies on shrieks and voices highest achieved 412, t8 440-460 with mechanics, t9 highest clear dps 390 all of this is at item lvl 104 im 106 now maybe ill see better numbers.

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pretty much agree with what everyone else is saying. what ever your using to produce your numbers is most likely not correctly counting downtime between phases and mechanics. 390 on T9 with Golem switching dive bombs and navigating the occasional loss of flank and rear with fire and thunder is totally inflated.

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Originally Posted by Inkmouse

pretty much agree with what everyone else is saying. what ever your using to produce your numbers is most likely not correctly counting downtime between phases and mechanics. 390 on T9 with Golem switching dive bombs and navigating the occasional loss of flank and rear with fire and thunder is totally inflated.

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Lol ok bud. You keep thinking that and I dont miss any flank or rears in last phase, not sure what you are doing but i dont have to miss any of those. Im not here to agrue with anyone but dont tell me my numbers are inflated just because you cant reach those, next thing you know you guys will say my smn cant do similiar numbers. All i can say is try harder.

Looks like we got another longnu on our hands.

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Originally Posted by LordMaitreya

Looks like we got another longnu on our hands.

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Who?

Anyway, I've always wondered about 'settings'. Seems like act is the most used one and I haven't used app in a while cause I feel that the ui is a major pain to deal with even though the widget seems to be nicer looking and after a while it just soaks up so much ram. Act has that encounter break setting where the default is 6 seconds and lots of people leave it at that. Some people I know used to report whatever last encounter act is giving them and since some fights have different lengths of time of encounter breaks, sometimes the numbers they mention is different to mine. Me and people I play with ended up settling on 16 seconds but what's the standard supposed to be anyway, if there's even one?

I go for a minute, ensuring there's never enough downtime to change the fact that you're checking your DPS from the time the fight starts to the time the boss is dead. It's the only way to consistently check your number against others and more importantly yourself from encounter to encounter.

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Originally Posted by Hakmatic

Lol ok bud. You keep thinking that and I dont miss any flank or rears in last phase, not sure what you are doing but i dont have to miss any of those. Im not here to agrue with anyone but dont tell me my numbers are inflated just because you cant reach those, next thing you know you guys will say my smn cant do similiar numbers. All i can say is try harder.

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Yes and every time you reply people only doubt you more and more as you offer zero constructive feedback as you how your avoiding downtime that most aren't. Unless your group isn't stacking thunders and fire out's behind the boss during Lunar Dynamo in the last phase then I find it unrealistic that you have 100% up-time with disembowel and Chaos thrust. Flank is more realistic as the flank of the boss is rather wide and can hit from a slight angle in the front section.
continued....

and again we come back to all the other unavoidable downtime in this fight such as Meteor Stream, Dive Bombs, first Green Meteor Placement, then the 6 meteor placement phase followed by the second Green Meteor placement. ALL of which your DPS should be dropping during the course of time in which these are happening.

then there's the Golem phases in which generally you won't realisticly be able to putt out 100% of your dps potential due to lack of health on them and some times having to hold DPS on the second and third ones if there not fed as fast as they are dieing depending on meteor placement on the map.

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Originally Posted by Inkmouse

and again we come back to all the other unavoidable downtime in this fight such as Meteor Stream, Dive Bombs, first Green Meteor Placement, then the 6 meteor placement phase followed by the second Green Meteor placement. ALL of which your DPS should be dropping during the course of time in which these are happening.

then there's the Golem phases in which generally you won't realisticly be able to putt out 100% of your dps potential due to lack of health on them and some times having to hold DPS on the second and third ones if there not fed as fast as they are dieing depending on meteor placement on the map.

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http://imgur.com/zDkeY0R

That was by far not our best run either, I just wanted to show you even on a bad run i do more than 330 the other guy was speaking of. I would give constructive feedback If as soon as i told my numbers i was instantly doubted. I only posted on this forum to let someone know that Dragoons can be the best in ever turn of coil, and to let someone that is mis informed know that mnk+bard is not better than drg+bard. Yes monk is 8% more damage, but if you know anything about mmos math doesnt apply in PVE, its all about the player behind that class(with the exception of t8 if no mechanics are involved). Anyways good luck happy raiding.

There's downtime not counted there. You can tell because the DPS have wildly different durations, and your (I'm guessing) WHM's duration was 20 seconds longer than the next highest player. If your settings counted downtime, every player would all be within 1-2 seconds apart from each other, IE from the start of the fight to the death of Nael. As I tried explaining before, if you have not changed the settings from default, it WILL NOT count downtime properly, even if you merge the sections. I've seen people with merges who got DPS quite a bit higher than they should have, then after they changed their settings were quite a bit lower than their merged fight in one total check.

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Originally Posted by Hakmatic

That was by far not our best run either, I just wanted to show you even on a bad run i do more than 330 the other guy was speaking of. I would give constructive feedback If as soon as i told my numbers i was instantly doubted.

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yah, ok keep dodging the questions in which everyone doubting you for and it's how your capturing these numbers. I guarantee your encounter length is set to something along the lines of the default which is 10 - 15 seconds which is freezing your dps between the unavoidable downtime thus giving you a misrepresentation of DPS. DPS is the entirety of the fight not just when your conveniently able to hit Nael. Your little graph doesn't specify if your listing one encounter or you've gone and selected ALL from the top after it's been broken up because your encounters are ending early.

lol man if you counted the times that you not dpsing during all fights you wouldnt break 200, learn how DPS works, there is ENCDPS and DPS, also Damage done, everything was read correctly, dont get mad cause you cant do those numbers work harder.

Ill leave you guys alone now , i only posted to defends drgs, which then just makes drgs mad cause they cant do it. Peace

DPS = Damage Per Second over the entirety of the fight.

Not Damage Per Second only when I'm only able to touch the mob. if you want to leave it that way and it makes you feel better about your numbers be my guest but like I and others have told you it is a misrepresentation of what DPS is.

I could set the encounter to 5 seconds so that anytime i'm not touching something for more then 5 seconds it freezes for me and it would inflate it more then your numbers if this is nothing more then a numbers contest.

you couldnt reach that number if you had to bro thats why you mad

Let's just stop now, guys. It's just turning into a flame.

Not everyone has the same definition of DPS just like "I'll leave you guys alone now" apparently doesn't the mean the same thing to all people.

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Originally Posted by Hakmatic

you couldnt reach that number if you had to bro thats why you mad

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Very constructive of you again. Anyways I'm done with your troll if inflating your numbers and then coming in here and posting them makes you feel like king of the internet be my guest.

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Originally Posted by ColdestHeaven

Let's just stop now, guys. It's just turning into a flame.

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Agreed I'm done with this specific conversation as it's turned nonconstructive and uninformative.

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Originally Posted by Hakmatic

http://imgur.com/zDkeY0R

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Hello,

Lets break this Link down so that you guys can "better" understand what you are seeing here. Everything is divided up so that even for trolls like you its explainable. In this document we have duration which if you want the total duration of the fight it would be 9 minutes and 58 seconds. In this document we see the damage done which is a total of 224,283 for Hak there his fighting duration meaning from the first strike on the boss to the end of the fight is 9 minutes and 22 seconds giving him 399.08 dps for his fighting time. Where as since the encounter is a total of 9 minuites and 58 seconds gives him and encounter dps of 376.31.

continued....

Therefore this takes into account your downtime bull shit that you are trying to pull because encounter dps from act takes into account the total time of the fight not just the time that he is attacking the boss. This means it is recording all damage from the time that I pull the boss till the time it is killed. I'm giving you this information so that you can know your shit before you start to throw out random information. Oh and before I forget the reason that Palmtop has a total time of 10 minutes and 11 seconds is due to the fact that he buffs everyone before the encounter starts.

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Originally Posted by Avy4576

Hello,
duration of the fight it would be 9 minutes and 58 seconds. In this document we see the damage done which is a total of 224,283 for Hak there his fighting duration meaning from the first strike on the boss to the end of the fight is 9 minutes and 22

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First meteor swarm 4 seconds, second double swarm 6 seconds, first set of green meteor placement 15 seconds, second set of meteor placement 30 seconds, approximate time between killing Golems and Nael coming back 20 seconds typically 2 bombs phases before kill 15 seconds each. All equal out to about 1 minute and 45 seconds of unavoidable downtime.

But your saying in your 9 minutes 58 second fight he only has 36 seconds of downtime. This is why when you don't record the encounter as a whole and you have the encounter time cut off after 10 seconds and break it into multiple encounters it causes a misrepresentation in your data because you are in fact NOT reflecting the downtime correctly.

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Originally Posted by Avy4576

first strike on the boss to the end of the fight is 9 minutes and 22 seconds

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A video would be nice.

Our group push with 3 meteors in first phase, go into last phase right after 2nd heavensfall and kill shortly after 2nd set of divebomb, yet we can barely break 10 mins mark.

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Originally Posted by Inkmouse

First meteor swarm 4 seconds, second double swarm 6 seconds, first set of green meteor placement 15 seconds, second set of meteor placement 30 seconds, approximate time between killing Golems and Nael coming back 20 seconds typically 2 bombs phases before kill 15 seconds each. All equal out to about 1 minute and 45 seconds of unavoidable downtime.

But your saying in your 9 minutes 58 second fight he only has 36 seconds of downtime. This is why when you don't record the encounter as a whole and you have the encounter time cut off after 10 seconds and break it into multiple encounters it causes a misrepresentation in your data because you are in fact NOT reflecting the downtime correctly.

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You're an idiot I'm stating that he was in the battle for 9 min and 22 seconds not that he was fighting for 9 min and 22 seconds. That time includes any downtime that we incur.

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Originally Posted by Avy4576

You're an idiot I'm stating that he was in the battle for 9 min and 22 seconds not that he was fighting for 9 min and 22 seconds. That time includes any downtime that we incur.

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and the insults start.... What i'm stating is that 9:58 seconds is not including all your downtime. after 10 or 15 seconds seconds of no action it's cutting off and ending the encounter separating it. Try it on a dummy hit it wait 30 seconds and hit it again. it didn't count 15 of those seconds in the total encounter.

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Originally Posted by Avy4576

Oh and before I forget the reason that Palmtop has a total time of 10 minutes and 11 seconds is due to the fact that he buffs everyone before the encounter starts.

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I decided to post again cause there's a lot of flaming and misinformation here.

First of all, ACT records at the first instance of damage aka the pull. Look through your t6-t8 parses, your tank that pulled will have the highest encounter time unless someone else pulled. The only reason one of your healers can have a higher encounter time, is if they pulled or your parse is merged at some point.

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Originally Posted by Avy4576

You're an idiot I'm stating that he was in the battle for 9 min and 22 seconds not that he was fighting for 9 min and 22 seconds. That time includes any downtime that we incur.

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The parse you shown had a total raid dps of 1717.16, unless I made a mistake adding somewhere. You can check your self by clicking on the encounter. I just added it up.

Here is one of some other group of people with total raid dps of 1773, http://puu.sh/aaiWa/f168d001b9.png

You can notice that it's merged with a total encounter time of 9:31 seconds. What you are telling people right now is that your group manages to kill the same boss like 1 minute faster than a group with a higher total dps since theirs is merged and yours is apparently not.

In comparison, bluegarter kills it in like 10:15 or something.

Some people merge their t9 parse and some run it continuously.

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Originally Posted by Hakmatic

That was by far not our best run either, I just wanted to show you even on a bad run i do more than 330 the other guy was speaking of. I would give constructive feedback If as soon as i told my numbers i was instantly doubted. I only posted on this forum to let someone know that Dragoons can be the best in ever turn of coil, and to let someone that is mis informed know that mnk+bard is not better than drg+bard. Yes monk is 8% more damage, but if you know anything about mmos math doesnt apply in PVE, its all about the player behind that class(with the exception of t8 if no mechanics are involved). Anyways good luck happy raiding.

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Math absolutely applies. You're using inductive arguments over deductive ones. You agree that monk is 8% more damage, and that bards get 7% more damage from disembowel. It then follows that mnk+bard would lead to a higher dps than drg+bard. This doesn't even count the base damage difference between DRGs and BRDs. This is more valid than the inductive argument that, since the bard and I(aka the dragoon) do more damage than the monk and the bards I know, then it must follow that drg+bard is better than monk+bard.

When you're talking about dragoons or a class in general being the best at certain content, you have to assume you're competing against a player that's maxing damage to the same extent. A great scholar can probably dutyfinder titan hm and do more dps than everyone there, does it follow then that scholars is the best dps in titan hm?

I absolutely agree that a DRG can do the best dps in every turn of coil, but that depends on running with people that are less geared or doing things sub-optimally.

Thank you Ricky, that more or less was what i was trying to point out in the end. hopefully your explanation makes more sense to them.

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Originally Posted by Infina

A video would be nice.

Our group push with 3 meteors in first phase, go into last phase right after 2nd heavensfall and kill shortly after 2nd set of divebomb, yet we can barely break 10 mins mark.

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wow 3 meteors, did u have a 500 dps MNk and 480 dps DRG in ur static?

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Originally Posted by Empressia

wow 3 meteors, did u have a 500 dps MNk and 480 dps DRG in ur static?

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solo heal

/10char

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

First of all, ACT records at the first instance of damage aka the pull.
The parse you shown had a total raid dps of 1717.16, unless I made a mistake adding somewhere. You can check your self by clicking on the encounter. I just added it up.Here is one of some other group of people with total raid dps of 1773, http://puu.sh/aaiWa/f168d001b9.png You can notice that it's merged with a total encounter time of 9:31 seconds. What you are telling people right now is that your group manages to kill the same boss like 1 minute faster than a group with a higher total dps since theirs is merged and yours is apparently not.
In comparison, bluegarter kills it in like 10:15 or something.

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Want a merged version?