Lack of End Game Content

It been stated a number of times in the past, that they dont expect you to play FF14 and FF14 alone. If you get bored of what is available, go do something else and come back when content is out that interests you.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

It been stated a number of times in the past, that they dont expect you to play FF14 and FF14 alone. If you get bored of what is available, go do something else and come back when content is out that interests you.

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This. I switch between XI and XIV as a wait for new stuff to release.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

It been stated a number of times in the past, that they dont expect you to play FF14 and FF14 alone. If you get bored of what is available, go do something else and come back when content is out that interests you.

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This.
And I do apply this to any game really.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

It been stated a number of times in the past, that they dont expect you to play FF14 and FF14 alone. If you get bored of what is available, go do something else and come back when content is out that interests you.

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We understand, just simply asking can there be more diversity in endgame content ex. Fix eureka maybe and make rewards reflect the effort put in. I play many different games on PS4 and also own a switch but id like to play ffxiv more than 1 day week for 1-2 hours(aka my current situation).

First off, I want to preface this by competition does not equal world first clears, that is just the form I used for an example as the ones pushing for those tend to hit the out of content wall first. It can be anything from as small as trying to out agro the other DPS in the group, trying to clear more floors of PoD/HoH than any other group. I kinda went through the quoted posts below and bolded parts that hint at what I am getting at.

You also have to look at what drives people to seek out a challenge. More often than not, it has to do with seeking improvement. What drives the desire for improvement? Usually its pride in what one does, or a competitive drive, sometimes both.

The problem however is it also creates a skill divide, while I haven't cleared Titiana EX yet, I haven't particularly found her hard either.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

I would go for world/server first clears if I had the time, or the main job(Samurai is shunned for such things). My Zalera server first was before I got a full time job. Now, I just want refreshing content that can last for more than 2 months. I want them to think outside the box for fights(in this case quite literally.) I would love for fights to be implemented where you cleverly utilize the environment to kill adds on certain phases, or parts of the fight where the environment itself interacts with our character in unique ways(there are plenty of examples of this if you look at other MMOs.) I love PvP, but this game engine isn't built for that with the way the combat works so I don't talk about it.

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Kinda like the Aenc Thon and Hashmal fights on Steroids and also in reverse at times? I could see a lot of fun times if had to pass a dps check while the only place could do damage was on an Aenc Thon style tight rope and the boss could also actively push try and push you off as well.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

I would love if the Savage raids were even more expansive than coil was, with plenty of hidden mysteries to explore. Of course, I realize people don't wish to waste their time and want to go straight to the goal, so there would have to be proper reward incentives. For this, I think of something like chests that can contain an item that pops an NM, either inside or outside the raid, which in turn would drop high gil items to sell(Think KSNMs/BCNMs from FFXI). High-end crafting items having a small chance to drop off the trash in between is also something that can provide incentive. They can also implement a survival mode type endgame, where waves of enemies(tons of trash and bosses scattered here and there) rush at you(similar to one of your suggestions). Rewards could correspond to how long you survive and how many bosses you kill. What is sorely lacking right now in endgame is any form of exploration or adventure. It's just boss fights and that's it. It's extremely linear, as is the gear, which is also a limiting factor on endgame right now. If you made additional modes, the amount of BiS gear wouldn't increase, because there is no such thing as situational gear in this game, just flat stats. I would love to implement more exploration into our endgame, for it to feel like an epic adventure. But again, knowing how people are, there has to be some kind of reward for that.

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This would be the harder one to solve long term, the closest thing I could think of currently would be finding a way to mix FFXI's Moblin Maze Mongers, XIV's PoD/HoH with crafting. Crafters make the peices that lead to the generation of a mystery dungeon style of raid, iLvl determied by the peices, using pre-existing content to fill it in with crafting materials as the rewards. Including special materials used to make/upgrade new gear for use in those raids only as well higher iLvl dungeon peices. The problem lies in how to distribute the drops in a way to keep it from just being rng grind fest, or resorting to lockouts or punishing people who dont do it constantly.

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Originally Posted by Nims

Not for me, I don't care about world firsts clears, never have and never will. I want challenging and lasting content. I want there to be a reason that I'm going out of my way to get this gear. Be it fun(raids here aren't fun any more, Coil was fun) or because I need it for world bosses or something else. That's the reason I don't play BDO as long as I'd like. I love the grinding, the open world, the pvp, and the fact quests aren't forced down my throat but there's no real reason for the grind. I grind for like what? Node Wars 2 times a week?

Here getting gear for raids is an acceptable answer but the stuff is so easy you can clear it all in overmeld crafted gear.

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Originally Posted by MonteCristo

This is more or less what i am saying too. Dont really care of EX trials or fighting for a world first. Would just love some Content that is lasting and can be done with replayability. Loved the way relic played out but it was a huge disappointment to put that much effort into a weapon that not only isnt BIS but does not stand the test of time. We have had like a million different relics. Would love one true ultimate weapon with something unique about it ex. Special hidden trait or weaponskill/ability. But i digress....To be honest i really thought eureka was going to be our savior and it was the exact type of content i was looking forward too....on paper it sounded GREAT....then it failed :(

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So Nims and MonteCristo both just kinda want something challenging and lasting that would create more of a long term goal it seems. One of the things I really liked about FFXI's RME's... they were awesome long term goals. Too bad every MMO ignores crafter endgame for the equation on things like that. They really could take overmelding materia like 10 steps farther with monster drops and a robust crafting system. And really any time investment peice of gear, I feel should have an upgrade system in place. You make V1.0 ultimate weapon, 1.1 boss comes out, it drops you a Ki to upgrade the weapon to be equal tier to that bosses drops.

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Originally Posted by LadyKairi

I wish for more challenging content, yet I have zero interest in being world first or top of the leader board. I just like the challenge and bettering myself in challenging content. I like to compare myself to my superiors, but it’s more about learning and self improvement than being competitive.

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Though why do you really seek out the challenge and want to improve? Is it because you take pride in your play, or you want to do better than some of the other players you hear about? Out of all the others, you are the only one that did not mention anything that drastically jumped out more on the competative side, other than compare to your superiors. And many not only want to learn from their superiors, they want to surpass them.

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Originally Posted by LadyKairi

I only really log in to raid on my scheduled raid days. We take our time, yet we still end up with a long period where we have nothing to really do after we get our gear and mounts. This content brings my static together. We have a lot of fun together, and progging with them is a blast. I also tend to stream our raid night, so even my FC fam tune in to experience the content when they either can’t prog or don’t feel they’re good enough to participate. It brings my loved ones together and it gives me a lot of entertainment (optimizing and finally clearing feels so rewarding).

I’m not sure what I would add. I’ve thought even just one more boss would be fine. I’ve also heard of challenging 4 man dungeons, which I’m all for. I’m game for anything at this point. I just find the current dungeons braindead. I don’t even have to think about what I’m doing, to the point it just makes me really sleepy. Extremes aren’t that much better. I do have to say, though, I love the fact they add one primal every expansion that’s supposed to be more difficult than the others (thordan and shinryu), though I think one is pretty low. I find those the most rewarding.

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And LadyKairi is a fine example of why a handful of dungeons or raids should be designed to be released at an initial dificulty of savage/ultimate, and then retuned for the other dificulties. Titania - Titania Ex, and Innocence-Innocence Ex kinda showcase this slightly. To me, it seems like Titania was done from low to high, where as Innocence was done from High to low. If LadyKairi has done both, I'm curious as to which she preferred.

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

To all the ones like Nims and Zabuza, wanting more challenging end game content, the more and more I think about all the pieces of the puzzle, the more I am starting to come to an odd conclusion. For some it's not so much the content or the rewards of the content, it's the spirit of competition.

Maybe I'm wrong, but the lack of content crowd seems to be the ones that also strive for world/server first clears so devour content faster than everyone else. Its not the loot or content that drives them, but their competitive nature.

And thats where the content is truly lacking. So if raids or pvp were totally off the table, what other kinds of competitive things might be fun for you? Weekly/Monthly leaderboards for fastest min iLvl clears for certain trials/dungeons, lowest iLvl clears done for the same, random boss rush roulettes?

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Honestly its not the competition/challenge in of itself, but the thrill of it. Why do you think many people enjoy difficult games like Dark Souls or Monster Hunter? that thrill keeps our focus and attention and is whats really makes the experience impact and enjoyable, In the challenging content it really requires us to take all the knowledge we have gained from the game + our maximum available kit + perfect coordination with our group and that's what makes it fun. Speaking for myself personally I just find it difficult to enjoy games like Dynasty Warriors, where I just thoughtlessly smash buttons and everything before me dies. It just isn't fun or engaging, but I understand some people enjoy that, and that is fine.

Honestly for me I would like too see more engaging Open world endgame content. The open world in this game just feels too much like a prop, with no real depth or mystery to it. Whenever someone criticizes the story restrictions in this game, the main defense is "Its a FFXIV game" which even though I am not a fan of the strict story gating in this game, that reason is why I don't find the story gating a negative, But the thing is, you know what else FF is known for? deep interesting and fleshed out worlds to explore with secrets to discover. Say what you will about FFXI but it did an amazing job at this. I feel this game is just completely lacking in that regards.

Hopefully with the next Eureka/Diadam type content they can get it right. I like that they are trying but it seems with those content, they took some of the worst parts of the Open World and just relegated it too its own instance.

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Originally Posted by MonteCristo

We understand, just simply asking can there be more diversity in endgame content ex. Fix eureka maybe and make rewards reflect the effort put in. I play many different games on PS4 and also own a switch but id like to play ffxiv more than 1 day week for 1-2 hours(aka my current situation).

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if you play 1-2 hours weekly, then you clearly ignore 99% of things you could be doing, it's not the games fault.

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

if you play 1-2 hours weekly, then you clearly ignore 99% of things you could be doing, it's not the games fault.

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Im only interested in end game content atm..ive been playing this game for almost 10 years and trust me when i say i have done alot of the content you are most likely referring to.

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Originally Posted by Klb600

Honestly its not the competition/challenge in of itself, but the thrill of it. Why do you think many people enjoy difficult games like Dark Souls or Monster Hunter? that thrill keeps our focus and attention and is whats really makes the experience impact and enjoyable, In the challenging content it really requires us to take all the knowledge we have gained from the game + our maximum available kit + perfect coordination with our group and that's what makes it fun. Speaking for myself personally I just find it difficult to enjoy games like Dynasty Warriors, where I just thoughtlessly smash buttons and everything before me dies. It just isn't fun or engaging, but I understand some people enjoy that, and that is fine.

Honestly for me I would like too see more engaging Open world endgame content. The open world in this game just feels too much like a prop, with no real depth or mystery to it. Whenever someone criticizes the story restrictions in this game, the main defense is "Its a FFXIV game" which even though I am not a fan of the strict story gating in this game, that reason is why I don't find the story gating a negative, But the thing is, you know what else FF is known for? deep interesting and fleshed out worlds to explore with secrets to discover. Say what you will about FFXI but it did an amazing job at this. I feel this game is just completely lacking in that regards.

Hopefully with the next Eureka/Diadam type content they can get it right. I like that they are trying but it seems with those content, they took some of the worst parts of the Open World and just relegated it too its own instance.

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This about sums up my sentiments as well. Fixing euerka/diadem add a meaningful relic and im happy to be honest.

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Originally Posted by Klb600

Honestly its not the competition/challenge in of itself, but the thrill of it. Why do you think many people enjoy difficult games like Dark Souls or Monster Hunter? that thrill keeps our focus and attention and is whats really makes the experience impact and enjoyable, In the challenging content it really requires us to take all the knowledge we have gained from the game + our maximum available kit + perfect coordination with our group and that's what makes it fun. Speaking for myself personally I just find it difficult to enjoy games like Dynasty Warriors, where I just thoughtlessly smash buttons and everything before me dies. It just isn't fun or engaging, but I understand some people enjoy that, and that is fine.

Honestly for me I would like too see more engaging Open world endgame content. The open world in this game just feels too much like a prop, with no real depth or mystery to it. Whenever someone criticizes the story restrictions in this game, the main defense is "Its a FFXIV game" which even though I am not a fan of the strict story gating in this game, that reason is why I don't find the story gating a negative, But the thing is, you know what else FF is known for? deep interesting and fleshed out worlds to explore with secrets to discover. Say what you will about FFXI but it did an amazing job at this. I feel this game is just completely lacking in that regards.

Hopefully with the next Eureka/Diadam type content they can get it right. I like that they are trying but it seems with those content, they took some of the worst parts of the Open World and just relegated it too its own instance.

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Kinda interesting that you picked Dark Souls and Monster Hunter... Really liked the Souls series myself, Hard as nails, easy to pick up, and fair. Monster Hunter never really could get into thanks to the mega information dump had to get over at the start. Also the dynasty warrior games while fun for a bit, do get boring quickly.

So content wise, maybe more stuff on the scale of the Odin fate(at ARR iLvls), but also tied in with potentially a couple other fate chains/hunts or the like, but also hidden away and tricky to trigger. I'd probably go with some kind of unique style of re-spawn timer for it as do want it easily available for those that figure it out, but maybe not quickly farm able.

The really interesting thing is, I can see most players enjoying all of this style of content... yet more effort was spent trying to say develop more content for Side A or Side B instead of trying to figure out what kind of elements might be best used to develop content both sides could enjoy at a variety of skill levels.