Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

I dunno man I think I'm actually really done with this topic. There's literally nothing else productive that can really happen here at this point, between people constantly seething over Firemage and and everyone's set in their opinions one way or another, there really isn't more to discuss on the topic.

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People get mad over Firemage? He's just a puppet with a pull string that comes with phrases he says over and over.

1. DISMISSED

2. Don't mess with your betters.

3. You are factually wrong because I am right.

4. etc...

Has no one figured out to not take him seriously? You just pull the string, see the funny thing he says, laugh, and then put the toy away until you get bored and then pull the string again.

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Originally Posted by Effendi

I'm not arguing severity or legality.

I'm just saying that A existing is no reason to let B exist as well. We don't allow tax fraud just because murders happen. Your entire line of reasoning is flawed.

B should live or die on its own merits. And to me, its potential downsides far outweigh its potential benefits.

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Except DPS metter don't ''Allow'' people to be rude in itself, the rule still applies that you can't just insult people.

You can talk to other people in the game, yet I see no one crying that the chat option can be used to insult people. If we would stop things at ''This thing can be used to harass people'' then we would lose more than half of the content of the game.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Please do not twist my words around, thanks. I never said your experience didn't matter, I said if you're only level 34 then you've not had enough exposure to the game to have a COMPLETELY educated opinion. This isn't invalidating you. It's saying you literally have not been exposed to the game long enough to know as much about it as you could.

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It’s really odd, for some reason I have a posting limit on how much I can post a day? Not really sure why, but essentially the post does attempt to invalidate my experience. You specifically stated “maybe step back and realize you are not experienced enough with 14's community to have a completely educated opinion, otherwise you're going to be in for an unpleasant surprise.” Yet I already stated that I’ve had two experiences with random individuals in the FFXIV community that supersede anything I’ve experienced in WoW. So even if all of my experiences, going forward, was negative, I’d still would have had two experiences that surpassed any random encounter in WoW. So to say to “maybe step back and realize you are not experienced enough” is essentially invalidating the two encounters that rose FFXIV above WoW’s community in my eyes. Now you may not mean to invalidate my experience, but that statement still does that.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Fair enough. But it's not really fair to say "mindsets that closer align with WoW" when there are plenty of 14 players who have never touched WoW and are aware of the toxic undercurrent of 14.

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One doesn’t have to play WoW to have a mindset reminiscent of WoW’s mentality. It just means you have traits that’s seen within the WoW community. So it’s not surprising that the complaints they say are the same complaints I’ve seen used within the WoW Community towards either FFXIV players or casual players in general.

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Originally Posted by Effendi

I'm not arguing severity or legality.

I'm just saying that A existing is no reason to let B exist as well. We don't allow tax fraud just because murders happen. Your entire line of reasoning is flawed.

B should live or die on its own merits. And to me, its potential downsides far outweigh its potential benefits.

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Mean I will disagree with people stating how dps meters are as toxic people say they are, its just people who know they are bad dont want to get asked to put more effort in.

but the way FF14 playerbase likes to say it is yet ignores every other harassment which is worse then dps meters is just confounded esp when the argument they use is wow is more toxic

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Originally Posted by Kira619

It’s really odd, for some reason I have a posting limit on how much I can post a day? Not really sure why, but essentially the post does attempt to invalidate my experience. You specifically stated “maybe step back and realize you are not experienced enough with 14's community to have a completely educated opinion, otherwise you're going to be in for an unpleasant surprise.” Yet I already stated that I’ve had two experiences with random individuals in the FFXIV community that supersede anything I’ve experienced in WoW. So even if all of my experiences, going forward, was negative, I’d still would have had two experiences that surpassed any random encounter in WoW. So to say to “maybe step back and realize you are not experienced enough” is essentially invalidating the two encounters that rose FFXIV above WoW’s community in my eyes. Now you may not mean to invalidate my experience, but that statement still does that.

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Why are you conflating Experience with Experiences?

Dictionary definition 1: [uncountable] the knowledge and skill that you have gained through doing something for a period of time; the process of gaining this.

Example: "I have invested enough hours into this specific class to have experience in it".

Dictionary definition 2: [countable] an event or activity that affects you in some way

Example: "My experiences playing this class in Savage have molded my view of its usefulness".

In short, no, at least not where you quote him. He didn't devalue your countable experiences, he merely said your countable experiences may have been negative due to you not being incountably experienced in the game.

If a new player is inexperienced, then their experiences will be those of learning and difficulty.
If a player is experienced, then they likely have amassed several experiences, both positive and negative.

At no point are you being invalidated whatsoever. You, are, however, being told virtually this:

"You've had weird moments that have changed your perception of the community. You sure it wasn't you, or are the people you hung out with really that bad? Could even have been a case of misfortune, who knows."

Not that you suck and your experiences and experience overall doesn't matter.

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

Except DPS metter don't ''Allow'' people to be rude in itself, the rule still applies that you can't just insult people.

You can talk to other people in the game, yet I see no one crying that the chat option can be used to insult people. If we would stop things at ''This thing can be used to harass people'' then we would lose more than half of the content of the game.

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DPS meters promote instrumental play over social play. Which in WoW case lead it to become the toxic cesspool it is now. I don't want the same in FF14.

For you to convince me, you'd need to prove why humans playing FF14 will behave differently than humans that play WoW when presented with the same stimuli.

Oh shit we are pulling out dictionary definitions now. Run for cover!

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Originally Posted by Tehmon

Oh shit we are pulling out dictionary definitions now. Run for cover!

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Quoting an actual astrophysicist here:

Space is hard. Words are harder.

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Originally Posted by Effendi

For you to convince me, you'd need to prove why humans playing FF14 will behave differently than humans that play WoW when presented with the same stimuli.

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Maybe the fact that there are ALREADY dps meters and this doesn't happen? Hmm.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

In short, no, at least not where you quote him. He didn't devalue your countable experiences, he merely said your countable experiences may have been negative due to you not being incountably experienced in the game.

If a new player is inexperienced, then their experiences will be those of learning and difficulty.
If a player is experienced, then they likely have amassed several experiences, both positive and negative.

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Wait what? I'm not sure if you're misunderstanding or are just trying to debate, because this post largely doesn't correlate with what I said. Nowhere did I say I had a few negative experiences in FFXIV. I've said I've had nothing but positive experiences in FFXIV. I've also said I've had 2 experiences in FFXIV that blows away any random encounter I had in WoW.

So, it would make no sense for him to say, "your countable experiences may have been negative due to you not being incountably experienced in the game." because I never said I had negative experiences in FFXIV. I have had a TON of negative experiences playing WoW. But the point of my previous posts was to indicate why, for me, I feel that WoW's community is more toxic.

Secondly,

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At no point are you being invalidated whatsoever. You, are, however, being told virtually this:

"You've had weird moments that have changed your perception of the community. You sure it wasn't you, or are the people you hung out with really that bad? Could even have been a case of misfortune, who knows. "

Not that you suck and your experiences and experience overall doesn't matter.

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This is the literal definition of invalidate. Since we're using definitions:

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Invalidate -
1.
make (an argument, statement, or theory) unsound or erroneous.

2.
deprive (an official document or procedure) of legal efficacy because of contravention of a regulation or law.

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Fits smack dab with the first definition. With that said, I don't believe that was what he was saying in that post. Because your interpretation would have a much stronger leaning in the invalidation and "splaining" department due to it trying to redirect my viewpoint of seeing WoW as more toxic environment possibly back at me and saying I may have done something wrong. I do not believe that was his intentions.

I believe his intentions was to say, "If this level 34 character is your only character, then you should not try and form an opinion on FFXIV toxicity because you haven't been in the game long enough."

It is still invalidation because it's saying "Those two experiences you treasured should be pushed to the side. You will likely run into experiences as you continue to play the game that will change your mind."

And such, I asked to not be invalidated. The whole "You can't have an opinion, you're a noob" is invalidation. I'm 100% okay with people disagreeing with me, but not that.