Letter to MR Yoshi: Why parses system is destroying the ffxiv world.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

Don't forget - they might also call you names and tell you that you don't pay their sub.

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Basically this. I’ll never forget telling a BRD in Heavensward that they should use things like Wanderer’s Minuet, Straight Shot, and DoTs because they’ll do more damage that way (they were literally spamming just Heavy Shot—no Blunt Arrow or even their Fire Circle), and I was called an elitist for it because they wanted to play the way they wanted to play.

You know, for telling them to use the most basic skills in their toolkit, I’m now some elitist. I wasn’t even a raider back then; I was still very much a baby, but I at least knew the basics of my class...

I’ve given up on trying to instruct people, because they don’t listen most of the time. Very rarely will I get people who do, like today I had a SCH in V8N who said they were confused on the Graven Images, so I explained them to them, and they actually thanked and commended me for it. But that’s, sadly, a rarity in DF these days.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

I hope you try to instruct them, lol

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A while back, I had a NIN who I told no less than five times to please AoE large pulls. He started using Death Blossom... when we were running to the next pack, not on the actual mobs. When I finally got fed up and trolled him back with a Shirk, he died not to the boss—I actually took back aggro almost immediately, that's how awful his DPS was—he stood in an aoe after being dropped to 1% HP (Kugane last boss). He complained at the healer, calling her trash and called me trash.

Now I know that isn't everyone, or even the majority, but events like that are why people stay quiet. After all, I can't mention their damage because that'll be toxic~

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

If they do that, you're going to get a bunch of people quit right away. Not because they are bad, but because they don't want to play the game like raiders play the game. The way the game is now the only issue with dps is in savage, and to be blunt it ought to stay that way, because the risk of the game become as un fun as savage (and yes, people surprisingly dont find it fun, its why very few people do or complete it)

If you have a legal parser, you're asking for min-max style raiding to filter down, and the next thing they'll ask for is much harder casual content to force people to actually use the parsers and look up and practice the rotations. That's not going to be a fun game for a lot of people. I watched people struggle with royal menagerie and tusukyomi hard...if the game gets any harder in casual content, you'll start to see people unable to complete it, same as easy ex content.

Honestly, the game is fine casually. If you want a parser in savage and only savage, with the proviso theres a high dps check to be done solo to even get in it, ok. But the game as is, is fine for most people.

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Or they actually improve. Shocking, I know, however plenty of people want to improve yet have no idea they're even doing something wrong.

As for the casual content being fine. I am spamming Swallow's Compass right now for Company Seals. The damage is so laughably insignificant, I'm pulling in Deliverance and primarily being healed by Eos. In fact, Excog didn't even break multiple times. That's how little they do. I'll go you one better. Earlier tonight, I got Kefka Normal and everyone except myself (WAR) and the DRK died when Fire III marked players stood on the party. That DRK and I brought Kefka from 18% to 6%. And had I lasted just five seconds longer, we may have killed him since Holmgang and Vengeance were coming up. Yes, I know, I'm a raider, and yes, my WAR is BiS, but that shouldn't be remotely possible. Two tanks with no healers basically solo-ing a supposed raid boss. And you wonder why the community demands healers DPS and tanks sit in DPS stance.

btw, the DRK had mostly 340 or lower. So they weren't a raider.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Basically this. I’ll never forget telling a BRD in Heavensward that they should use things like Wanderer’s Minuet, Straight Shot, and DoTs because they’ll do more damage that way (they were literally spamming just Heavy Shot—no Blunt Arrow or even their Fire Circle), and I was called an elitist for it because they wanted to play the way they wanted to play.

You know, for telling them to use the most basic skills in their toolkit, I’m now some elitist. I wasn’t even a raider back then; I was still very much a baby, but I at least knew the basics of my class...

I’ve given up on trying to instruct people, because they don’t listen most of the time. Very rarely will I get people who do, like today I had a SCH in V8N who said they were confused on the Graven Images, so I explained them to them, and they actually thanked and commended me for it. But that’s, sadly, a rarity in DF these days.

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Nothing like being called a toxic elitist for suggesting to the Level 70 Dragoon that it might be pretty cool if they use Heavy Thrust.

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Originally Posted by SargentToughie

So have I. and when watching people struggle, I found myself often wishing that people were given more meaningful metrics to improve,

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It's not metrics that causes them to do that, its understanding the mechanics. A parser will do absolutely nothing then. You do not wipe in casual content to low dps. You wipe because you are slow at perceiving and reacting to mechanics.

You can introduce a parser, nothing will change in casual to make people better. You have to add teeth to it by redesigning casual content to have far more focus on dps checks, if your goal is to make players be better at DPS. Thats what people suggest here, and thats what will ruin the game if introduced. Don't do this in casual, because a lot of people will not like having to become mini-raiders and focus on DPS output that way, even if they already give decent DPS now and never enter ex trials or savage.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Considering the last two dungeons I’ve done this evening have involved a WAR as the top DPS against a MNK, a BLM, a RDM, and a DRG, it’s really not. The last Swallow’s Compass I did, I did more damage than the BLM...as an AST. Inb4 comments about how I’m a raider, my AST has 1 piece of Diamond gear, which is an accessory. Everything else is 360. I did more damage than them on both AOE pulls AND on bosses. There is literally no excuse for that.

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Cool, how about the 500 times when the run went well?

Exaggeration. Yet we need to totally overhaul the game because of the 1% of runs people remember that sucked.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

A while back, I had a NIN who I told no less than five times to please AoE large pulls. He started using Death Blossom... when we were running to the next pack, not on the actual mobs. When I finally got fed up and trolled him back with a Shirk, he died not to the boss—I actually took back aggro almost immediately, that's how awful his DPS was—he stood in an aoe after being dropped to 1% HP (Kugane last boss). He complained at the healer, calling her trash and called me trash.

Now I know that isn't everyone, or even the majority, but events like that are why people stay quiet. After all, I can't mention their damage because that'll be toxic~



Or they actually improve. Shocking, I know, however plenty of people want to improve yet have no idea they're even doing something wrong.

As for the casual content being fine. I am spamming Swallow's Compass right now for Company Seals. The damage is so laughably insignificant, I'm pulling in Deliverance and primarily being healed by Eos. In fact, Excog didn't even break multiple times. That's how little they do. I'll go you one better. Earlier tonight, I got Kefka Normal and everyone except myself (WAR) and the DRK died when Fire III marked players stood on the party. That DRK and I brought Kefka from 18% to 6%. And had I lasted just five seconds longer, we may have killed him since Holmgang and Vengeance were coming up. Yes, I know, I'm a raider, and yes, my WAR is BiS, but that shouldn't be remotely possible. Two tanks with no healers basically solo-ing a supposed raid boss. And you wonder why the community demands healers DPS and tanks sit in DPS stance.

btw, the DRK had mostly 340 or lower. So they weren't a raider.

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If that DRK were a Paladin you would have probably cleared. Clem clems OP.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

It's not metrics that causes them to do that, its understanding the mechanics. A parser will do absolutely nothing then. You do not wipe in casual content to low dps. You wipe because you are slow at perceiving and reacting to mechanics.

You can introduce a parser, nothing will change in casual to make people better. You have to add teeth to it by redesigning casual content to have far more focus on dps checks, if your goal is to make players be better at DPS. Thats what people suggest here, and thats what will ruin the game if introduced. Don't do this in casual, because a lot of people will not like having to become mini-raiders and focus on DPS output that way, even if they already give decent DPS now and never enter ex trials or savage.

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Better to have dungeons where you can literally spam 1-2-3 and win, right? No one is asking for supremely difficult casual content. We're asking for dungeons where I need to turn my brain on. To further emphasise my preceding point. With three vulnerability stacks, I ate the last boss' buster with nothing and took 30k. This is why tanks never learn to rotate cooldowns. Boss' shouldn't be such a laughable joke you shrug off their busters. When casual content is this easy, people aren't going to dodge things or even care. There isn't a reason to.

And I know plenty of casual players bored because despite not being interested in Savage, they want something engaging. Dungeons aren't. They're a complete joke.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Cool, how about the 500 times when the run went well?

Exaggeration. Yet we need to totally overhaul the game because of the 1% of runs people remember that sucked.

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We have now spammed Swallow's Compass three times. I, as the tank, have been top DPS every single run. The amount of aoe abilities used by DPS players? Zero. But yes, continue to prattle on about how bad DPS never happens.

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Originally Posted by SargentToughie

If that DRK were a Paladin you would have probably cleared. Clem clems OP.

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I know, right? I was thinking that the whole time. "Why aren't you a Paladin? ;-;"

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

It's not metrics that causes them to do that, its understanding the mechanics. A parser will do absolutely nothing then. You do not wipe in casual content to low dps. You wipe because you are slow at perceiving and reacting to mechanics.

You can introduce a parser, nothing will change in casual to make people better.

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Any person who can look at a meter on the side of their screen and understand that they are being horrendously outdamaged even by support roles and not desire to fix this is either lazy or an idiot.

If most people knew how poorly they were doing they would be more open to help offered and more likely to seek out basic resources to improve themselves as to not hold others back.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

It's not metrics that causes them to do that, its understanding the mechanics. A parser will do absolutely nothing then. You do not wipe in casual content to low dps. You wipe because you are slow at perceiving and reacting to mechanics.

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????

You literally wipe in Haukke HM if DPS is severely lacking (lvl 50). You will not clear Brayflox (mid-30s) if your DPS is too low because there will be too much poison on the ground for the healer to keep up their healing. You will be sliced to pieces by Ravana (early 50s) if you have low dps. You will never clear Sohr Kai (lvl 60) if your DPS is too long. These are all casual content. Shall I continue with other examples?

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Cool, how about the 500 times when the run went well?

Exaggeration. Yet we need to totally overhaul the game because of the 1% of runs people remember that sucked.

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How about the 500 times when it doesn’t? It’s rare I see a well-executed Expert Roulette where the DPS are actually doing decent damage for their item level, where they are actively AOEing, where the tanks are actively rotating cooldowns and stance-dancing, and where healers are actually contributing. It’s astounding the sort of things you see when you actually analyze dungeon runs, 24-man runs, or even normal-mode 8-man trials and raids. But people who don’t analyze them wouldn’t know to look for them, and, to them, they probably would think things are going well...when the reality is, the PLD is doing 3,500 DPS in a dungeon, beating both a SMN and a DRG, and the healer isn’t DPSing at all.

Both of us are offering nothing more than anecdotes at the end of the day. But I think the 1,600+-page Tales of the Duty Finder can speak for itself. How many of the stories in there are stories of smooth runs? I’d wager to say it’s not the majority, and even though it’s a venting thread, again, I still think that speaks for itself.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

It's not metrics that causes them to do that, its understanding the mechanics. A parser will do absolutely nothing then. You do not wipe in casual content to low dps. You wipe because you are slow at perceiving and reacting to mechanics.

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Minus when DPS don’t AOE trash packs down, and the tanks run out of mitigation, or the healer runs out of mana trying to keep them up because DPS think that spamming single-target abilities on trash packs is more potent than AOE abilities.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Cool, how about the 500 times when the run went well?

Exaggeration. Yet we need to totally overhaul the game because of the 1% of runs people remember that sucked.

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Riddle me this. Ask yourself why there's a major shortage of tanks queuing up for content, and why there's such a misguided focus on demanding that healers need to DPS.

Hint: The average skill level of the playerbase in DF is considered quite bad, bad enough that many tanks I know will actively avoid using DF without a friend or two to take along. Bonus points if the crap DPS is demanding the healer to use DPS skills to speed up the run, when they themselves are in reality doing less DPS than the tank. The stress level of a tank and healer skyrockets if the mobs aren't dying at any reasonable rate.

I actually made an effort this past week to try tanking in level 70 dungeons as a DRK. I just decided to nope back to Bard because a significant portion of the DPS I ran into weren't even trying.