SAM out classing all other DPS

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Originally Posted by Leonus

Every other AoE attack has fall off though except the one hissatsu and we'll put the word "Spammed" in quotations. 25 kenki cost per use makes it costly and you still need to make sure you have kaiten available for the 2 sen AoE attack and Guren which costs 50 kenki. No other Melee job even has AoE fall off though their AoE might not be quite as good as Sam's. I do know Nin Has pretty strong AoE ability and Mnks isn't bad, drgs I think are the worst off out of the melees.

The melee jobs are fairly balanced at this point, though Mnks can use some tweaks to skills to make them more useful, not necessarily more powerfull.

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Yep... And with 4 or less enemies, its actually better to spend Kenki on Kaiten to buff Goten. Kyoten only starts beating it at 5+ enemies. Not to mention the ridiculously high TP cost of our AoE Sen builders.

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Originally Posted by Leonus

Every other AoE attack has fall off though except the one hissatsu and we'll put the word "Spammed" in quotations. 25 kenki cost per use makes it costly and you still need to make sure you have kaiten available for the 2 sen AoE attack and Guren which costs 50 kenki. No other Melee job even has AoE fall off though their AoE might not be quite as good as Sam's. I do know Nin Has pretty strong AoE ability and Mnks isn't bad, drgs I think are the worst off out of the melees.

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I think Monk's have strong (maybe not the best) 'burst' AoE DPS of the melee DPS jobs. Howling Fist + Elixir Field under RoF + Internal Release is very strong. And if you're willing to use it, Perfect Balance + Rock Breaker spam. The peak numbers off of this is high, but of course it does fall off massively when PB and RoF wears off.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

And SAM wasn't present for world first kills for most statics

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Sigh. I understand that people feel the need to look at world firsts and base what's good and not around that, but it's not a fair representation of anything.
Most statics originally went SAM, but saw that the damage was simply too high for their current gear, so they switched to a job that could provide extra support.
Same goes for groups taking out AST for a WHM/SCH.

In progression, you're working around your gear more than anything. If you need mantra to heal up faster? Take Monk. Is SAM suddenly bad and Monk OP because you had to do this? Absolutely not.

what are we discussing here now? OP stated that he feels that SAM outclassing all other DPS that it warrant nerf, I think the latest posts here shows not. Is there anyone here that still share OP's thought?

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

In progression, you're working around your gear more than anything. If you need mantra to heal up faster? Take Monk. Is SAM suddenly bad and Monk OP because you had to do this? Absolutely not.

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And yet if SAM really was so OP, then they wouldn't have been the one to switch, it would have been one of the other DPS. Like it or not, what matters as far as balancing goes is progression, not when everyone is already overgeared and beating content that's trivial.

The fact that SAM was the one to change is more than proof enough that they aren't OP. Ninja's are the OP ones, as well as RDM, but SAM is where they belong. If anything they may be slightly low.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

Yep... And with 4 or less enemies, its actually better to spend Kenki on Kaiten to buff Goten. Kyoten only starts beating it at 5+ enemies. Not to mention the ridiculously high TP cost of our AoE Sen builders.

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I suppose if you're looking for burst aoe on low health targets 5+ is good, it's more like 9>= in general :O

Now that SB has been out for a bit, Sam is fine like it is. Not really OP (so no nerfs needed) but also not low enough in damage to warrant buffs

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

And yet if SAM really was so OP, then they wouldn't have been the one to switch, it would have been one of the other DPS. Like it or not, what matters as far as balancing goes is progression, not when everyone is already overgeared and beating content that's trivial.

The fact that SAM was the one to change is more than proof enough that they aren't OP. Ninja's are the OP ones, as well as RDM, but SAM is where they belong. If anything they may be slightly low.

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Agreed. Ninja needs some serious looking into. I feel like a SAM/Monk comp would work wonders, but Ninja is just too much of a necessity to the group. It's been like this since 3.0 actually, it's really a wonder why they're still letting this go on.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

Agreed. Ninja needs some serious looking into. I feel like a SAM/Monk comp would work wonders, but Ninja is just too much of a necessity to the group. It's been like this since 3.0 actually, it's really a wonder why they're still letting this go on.

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It's been like this since 2.4, where NIN were top DPS as well as having trick attack. 3.0 Was the perfect place of balance for NIN because it was actually personally fairly weak (you can see this during gordias; midas and creator fights were better for NIN) to justify what it to bring to the party and yet it was still meta.