Black Mage Sanctuary - A Guide to DPS

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galvuu

In a vacuum, the B4 opener isn't necessarily better.
The biggest advantage, to me, is that my AF lines up very perfectly with a lot of buffs that come out on 3rd/4th/5th/6th gcd, like Chain Stratagem, Trick Attack, Battle Voice and all that...

---

Maybe if I had one of those mythical Ninjas, not to mention we even lost our Bard, too. I kind of like the Sharp opener just because it's faster. Not like it's gonna make a big difference in the whole fight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kabooa

There is no pain like a critless litany.

---

I'll never forget that one Thordan EX where we had two Dragoons and I didn't get a single crit in p1.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Garotte14

I apologize it's taken this long to get around to making edits to the Black Mage Guide. Prog, family emergencies, as well as vacation have delayed this much longer than I had originally hoped. But it is done and will continue to be updated throughout the xpac. I'm sure there are some spelling errors or things I may have missed. Feel free to let me know if you find any incorrect information.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

---

Is the 3fireVI fire 3fireVI using BlizzVI rotation better than 2FireVI Fire 3FireVI not using BlizzVI rotation?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dusk278

Is the 3fireVI fire 3fireVI using BlizzVI rotation better than 2FireVI Fire 3FireVI not using BlizzVI rotation?

---

It is a lot harder than just which is better. In straight potency per second, 5 F4 rotation is better. But it isn't as easy as just use that rotation all the time. You need to be able to enter this rotation with full mana, and you need to have a 0 cost spell ready to cast when you enter UI after it. (Foul or T3P). Then in the cases where you can't satisfy this quickly, use the B4 rotation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IllyriaKnotfred

Honestly the hit to spell speed and direct hit just feels so... gross... while using the 330 weapon. The adjustment for losing 150 SS is just way to uncomfortable.

---

That is what I'm dreading too, I currently am Sitting at 2k SpS, and 1.9k Direct hit. And I that is without food. (With Food I hit a little over 2.1k SpS) I am a little scared to just drop the crafted staff for the WD, Int as much as the math tells me I should...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Glacie

That is what I'm dreading too, I currently am Sitting at 2k SpS, and 1.9k Direct hit. And I that is without food. (With Food I hit a little over 2.1k SpS) I am a little scared to just drop the crafted staff for the WD, Int as much as the math tells me I should...

---

It's mostly in your head, I'd say. I've been hovering around 1700 SS for the whole savage (broke 1800 for the first time ever just yesterday) without problems. Then again, I skipped the latter half of HW, and immediately after 4.05 was already the fastest I've ever cast my fires.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Glacie

That is what I'm dreading too, I currently am Sitting at 2k SpS, and 1.9k Direct hit. And I that is without food. (With Food I hit a little over 2.1k SpS) I am a little scared to just drop the crafted staff for the WD, Int as much as the math tells me I should...

---

We have a BLM in our static consistently parsing in the 90+ percentile on all 4 on savage and he has around 800 Spell Speed. There are pro's and con's to a higher Spell Speed value but it doesn't necessarily lead to higher numbers by default, just maybe makes it less punishing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waliel

It's mostly in your head, I'd say. I've been hovering around 1700 SS for the whole savage (broke 1800 for the first time ever just yesterday) without problems. Then again, I skipped the latter half of HW, and immediately after 4.05 was already the fastest I've ever cast my fires.

---

I Really Hope so, I know I'm not the best BLM around. Just a little concerned. Even if the 330 wasn't that big of a jump, the 340 augmented would be. So might as well get it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thela

We have a BLM in our static consistently parsing in the 90+ percentile on all 4 on savage and he has around 800 Spell Speed. There are pro's and con's to a higher Spell Speed value but it doesn't necessarily lead to higher numbers by default, just maybe makes it less punishing.

---

I skipped BLM in HW, so Relearning the Ins and outs of BLM has been a task. Plus I'm with a bunch of friends who honestly are just here to have fun. But I'm that one friend who likes to squeeze what I can out of her job XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thela

We have a BLM in our static consistently parsing in the 90+ percentile on all 4 on savage and he has around 800 Spell Speed. There are pro's and con's to a higher Spell Speed value but it doesn't necessarily lead to higher numbers by default, just maybe makes it less punishing.

---

Could I have their name so I can search their lodestone? I'm genuinely curious as to how his SS is that low

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IllyriaKnotfred

Could I have their name so I can search their lodestone? I'm genuinely curious as to how his SS is that low

---

I'd like to know too. with our current tier of gear you'd have to intentionally avoid SpS to be anywhere under 1k.

EDIT #1: Removed name for now since I may be incorrect on who it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IllyriaKnotfred

Could I have their name so I can search their lodestone? I'm genuinely curious as to how his SS is that low

---

Kime No'raya, he's logged out on DRG on lodestone atm though. I asked him why he doesn't go for spell speed and he said that the timing on foul is much better at lower spell speed thresholds and once you get used to your rotation taking a certain amount of time you can work around that fact. Now I'm not claiming its the best way to go, just pointing out that it is perfectly possible to produce good numbers without a ton of spell speed which in turn allows your other stats to go higher.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thela

Kime No'raya, he's logged out on DRG on lodestone atm though. I asked him why he doesn't go for spell speed and he said that the timing on foul is much better at lower spell speed thresholds and once you get used to your rotation taking a certain amount of time you can work around that fact. Now I'm not claiming its the best way to go, just pointing out that it is perfectly possible to produce good numbers without a ton of spell speed which in turn allows your other stats to go higher.

---

Hopefully i can catch him when he logs on his BLM ^_^. Well hes obviously doing something very right if hes in the 90 percentile.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IllyriaKnotfred

Hopefully i can catch him when he logs on his BLM ^_^. Well hes obviously doing something very right if hes in the 90 percentile.

---

Most of that comes down to timing cooldowns for what you need.

Though I imagine the lower spellspeed makes certain mandatory breaks, such as during Cata and Hali less punishing, as Spellspeed pushes ahead with high uptime (Mo' spells per timeslot). In those scenarios, hitting much harder is better than hitting much faster, as your GCD windows are longer, but that's irrelevant during a period where you're not using as many, and hitting harder would pull ahead.

It makes sense that low spell speed BLM builds put out a lot of dps because they let you do proportionately more 5xF4 rotations, but low spell speed feels sooooo baaaad. I hope they eventually buff B4 to make 6xF4 superior.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thela

Kime No'raya, he's logged out on DRG on lodestone atm though. I asked him why he doesn't go for spell speed and he said that the timing on foul is much better at lower spell speed thresholds and once you get used to your rotation taking a certain amount of time you can work around that fact. Now I'm not claiming its the best way to go, just pointing out that it is perfectly possible to produce good numbers without a ton of spell speed which in turn allows your other stats to go higher.

---

They have their lodestone blocked?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IllyriaKnotfred

They have their lodestone blocked?

---

No? but he's logging out on every job but BLM recently it seems heh. Yesterday was DRG now its SCH

Dunno. Searching that name shows nothing unless I'm blind

His logs show only 1 90%+ run while most are between 30-75 in everything except exdeath. I did catch him on blm earlier and he had 942 ss, which is still low. It would seem the low spell speed is holding him back on o1s-o3s where there's minimal downtime, and he's doing well on exdeath which has a lot of phase transitions. And neo-exdeath is just terrible for blms.

Edit - here's his lodestone. He's in blm atm. http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...cter/11945075/

Edit 2 - he's up to 1124 ss now.

Speed in practice is a very delicate thing.
There's unquestionable numbers that let you pull out certain things which help with rotations. I know that at 1750ish (there's a tier around here... 1751? 54? Something like that) I can do my normal B4 opener on Halicarnassus and, as I go into AF, do F4x3 (with Triple)>F4>F(get Firestarter from Sharpcast). This means that I'll keep AF through Spellblade Holy no matter what and have the Firestarter to position for the protean wave Waltz right after. I can also do one more spell before she scrambles my position if I do get tagged with Spellblade Holy.
Another example, I can consistently get a Fire off before Squelch, and a F4 before the last Forced March p2. I know I was always missing these with 1500.


There's many little things like these which you only notice with heavy practice. The fight must be so incredibly scripted that there's this kind of consistency between runs.
Jacking up CH and DH should yield almost as much dps (they have an interesting joint dps gain curve, those two), but speed always has this kinda advantage (and buff clipping). You just need to find a good number that works for you. That 1750ish is working fine for me, so I don't feel the need to get more if it means taking a hit to int/other secondaries.

If you refreshed Thunder with a proc through Fire-phase, when is it worth to recast/clip the Thunder-dot in Ice-Phase, too, althoug it is still on the target?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by qivis

If you refreshed Thunder with a proc through Fire-phase, when is it worth to recast/clip the Thunder-dot in Ice-Phase, too, althoug it is still on the target?

---

There's probably exact maths for that but I'm not sure what they are. Personally if there's 10 or more seconds left after I've cast Blizzard 4 then I go straight to Foul.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by qivis

If you refreshed Thunder with a proc through Fire-phase, when is it worth to recast/clip the Thunder-dot in Ice-Phase, too, althoug it is still on the target?

---

It is worth it to use a Thundercloud proc after 1 tick. So basically you can cast it whenever you get it, as long as it doesn't somehow mess you up in a rotation for whatever reason.

edit: Sorry misunderstood the question. Technically, we don't really know an exact time for it to be ideal to clip the dot and reset it. I personally just refresh it if I has less than half the time left, if I haven't gotten a proc at that point, I want to refresh my chances.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by qivis

If you refreshed Thunder with a proc through Fire-phase, when is it worth to recast/clip the Thunder-dot in Ice-Phase, too, althoug it is still on the target?

---

Probably safe to skip reapplying during that ice phase if it would have 12-15 seconds left, but you can make case by case decisions based on what you're doing, what's up, and that MP tick.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by qivis

If you refreshed Thunder with a proc through Fire-phase, when is it worth to recast/clip the Thunder-dot in Ice-Phase, too, althoug it is still on the target?

---

I think you're free to use that Thundercloud proc at anytime. Ideally keep it for as long as possible for maximum tick, but I'd rather not do that as I don't want to whiff my Fire Enochian, so I make use of my Thundercloud proc anytime I want replacing one of the Fire IV casts. Also, as soon as you start moving for mechanics, use it. Better "Pop it or drop it." instead of aiming for maximum ticks.

In the Ice phase, I usually cast Thunder anytime before / after Blizzard IV, or even replacing it if needed, just because Blizzard IV is not a priority spell in Raids.

He's not asking about when to use the proc. He's asking if he should refresh the dot during his UI phase even if he just used a T3 proc right before it during his AF phase.

To answer his question:

If the T3 DoT has enough time left to last through your next AF phase, then don't bother hardcasting the DoT again.

If there isn't enough time left on it, and it will drop off before you are done with your next AF phase, then yes hardcast the DoT again.

Basically if its between 12-15 seconds duration. skip it. chances are you will get another proc during AF anyway

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by prophecy4seen

Basically if its between 12-15 seconds duration. skip it. chances are you will get another proc during AF anyway

---

Unless you're really unlucky. Sometimes I can get 6 procs through the entire duration of T3, othertimes I get no procs for 3 applications of T3.

I agree with what some have state - if the current application of T3 will see you through your next fire phase (12s-15s) skip it, but aren't we using that casting time of T3 to let our mana catch up in UI? What are we doing if not casting T3, go with a B4?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaalia_Stormborn

I agree with what some have state - if the current application of T3 will see you through your next fire phase (12s-15s) skip it, but aren't we using that casting time of T3 to let our mana catch up in UI? What are we doing if not casting T3, go with a B4?

---

At the mercy of the mana tick.

There are a few scenarios.

Foul is ready
-Ticks immediately. T3 into Foul, or B4 into Foul if T3 is fresh
-Doesn't tick immediately, 1320 MP. B4 into T3 into Foul
-Doesn't tick immeditaely, sub 900 MP. Foul into B4 or T3 based on T3 Duration.

Foul isn't ready
-Ticks immediately. T3 into F3, or B4 into F3 if T3 is 15-18 seconds
-Doesn't tick immediately: Well poop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kabooa

At the mercy of the mana tick.

There are a few scenarios.

Foul is ready
-Ticks immediately. T3 into Foul, or B4 into Foul if T3 is fresh
-Doesn't tick immediately, 1320 MP. B4 into T3 into Foul
-Doesn't tick immeditaely, sub 900 MP. Foul into B4 or T3 based on T3 Duration.

Foul isn't ready
-Ticks immediately. T3 into F3, or B4 into F3 if T3 is 15-18 seconds
-Doesn't tick immediately: Well poop.

---

LOL! (but accurate)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaalia_Stormborn

I agree with what some have state - if the current application of T3 will see you through your next fire phase (12s-15s) skip it, but aren't we using that casting time of T3 to let our mana catch up in UI? What are we doing if not casting T3, go with a B4?

---

The math for this isn't easy. You should consider the expected dps of some length of T3 VS the refresh, accounting for the "lost ticks" (aka: overwritten ticks).
This includes the ccumulative probability of a TC proc. The 12s thing in HW came from some napkin math that had that as an estimation (which, unfortunately, I lost the reference to, but I remember because I posted there).
These should probably be redone and updated.

This is more of a heads up that if you want to min/max this, it's not completely trivial and not as simple as "does it last thru AF".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galvuu

T

This is more of a heads up that if you want to min/max this, it's not completely trivial and not as simple as "does it last thru AF".

---

The 12s bit I believe was primarily for 'When Tcloud'. It was the break even point where Tcloud could clip into T3 without being less potency than F4, which at the time was 504 instead of 468.

Well, B4 is like a spell that deals 728 damage and has a 5.6s cast time, so 130pps or 325pgcd. If Thundercloud procs didn't exist, a T3 would have to do 325 total potency to be at least as good as B4, meaning it would have to tick more than 6 times, meaning you'd need to be adding at least 21 seconds. This suggests that, if you're the world's unluckiest BLM who never gets TC procs, you'd want to only recast Thunder 3 on an enemy that has a ~3 second DoT or worse remaining on it.

For a definitive answer we'd need to model the expected PPS from not just adding DoT ticks to an enemy but increasing your chances of getting a thundercloud proc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ferrinus

Well, B4 is like a spell that deals 728 damage and has a 5.6s cast time, so 130pps or 325pgcd.

---

I'm having really hard time imagining how you're getting that. Double B4 based on time was my first thought, but the damage is almost three casts.

B3+F4. Duh.

Would it be too crazy to think it like this:

Fresh T3 has ~56,95% chance of TC so ~404 TC damage minus remaining DOT.
12s T3 has ~34,39% chance of TC so ~244 TC damage + remaining DOT.

So something like this with quick excel:

TC F4 F4 B3 Foul T3 B4 Fire rota + "TC avg" = 165.62 PPS (0s TC avg) to 155.92 (2.5s TC avg)
TC F4 F4 B3 Foul B4 Fire rota + "TC avg" = 166.26 PPS (0s TC avg) to 155.93 (2.5s TC avg)

I've no idea if there's any logic behind my Logic(tm).

I'm just trying to find the breakpoint at which B4 and T3 even out. So let's say that you're a moderately unlucky BLM - you only ever get your TC procs immediately (so even if you hold them as long as you can, you're forced to clip half an existing DoT when you burn them off) and your TC procs don't get TC procs of their own.

On a fresh target, T3 deals 390 potency/2.5sec 43% of the time, and 230 + 710 = 940 potency/5sec the other 57% of the time. That's 174 pps, obviously better than B4.

On a target that has, say, 12s of Thunder left, T3 adds 230 potency/2.5sec 66% of the time, and adds 70 + 710 = 780 potency/5sec the other 34% of the time. 60.7 + 51.5 = 116.2, worse than B4's 130. However, that's making a bunch of assumptions in B4's favor - in actual play, plenty of procs come late enough in an existing Thunder DoT that you can clip fewer than 12 seconds when discharging them, and your TC procs can generate TC procs themselves, etc.

Then again, I'm not taking into account the odds of the 12s target generating a TC proc all by its lonesome. So let's say that you choose to cast B4 on a monster with 12s of Thunder left on it and swap straight back to astral:

66% of the time, you just deal B4's 130pps. But 34% of the time, you deal B4's total 728 over 5.6sec, but ALSO deal a TC proc's 710 over 2.5sec, for a total of 1438 over 8.1 seconds. 85.8 + 60.4 = 146.2 pps. So maybe it's a good idea to allow an existing 12sec thunder dot expend itself rather than overwrite it with a hardcast. It's also possible that the way I'm taking weighted averages of different pps-es that last for different durations is totally wrong on its face, but it's late at night and I'm just thinking aloud before going to bed.

A question about AoE rotation before 68: how? On 4 or more targets I'd just keep thunder up, F2 few times then flare and transpose. But on 3 targets it gets a bit complicated. Before lvl 60 F2 was better than F1 on 3 targets, but with F4 it isn't. I tried to do some quick calculations:
(I skip thunder coz it's obviously used same in all cases)
F3 -> Flare -> transpose = 129,0 p/s, but is too short to transpose every time
F3 -> F4 -> Flare -> transpose = 118,7 p/s

What to do in umbral? With only 1 stack if I instantly jump back to astral it doesn't leave me with much mana to consider other options. If I don't get T procs and don't need to refresh it, I don't have transpose ready.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Terkhev

A question about AoE rotation before 68: how? On 4 or more targets I'd just keep thunder up, F2 few times then flare and transpose. But on 3 targets it gets a bit complicated. Before lvl 60 F2 was better than F1 on 3 targets, but with F4 it isn't. I tried to do some quick calculations:
(I skip thunder coz it's obviously used same in all cases)
F3 -> Flare -> transpose = 129,0 p/s, but is too short to transpose every time
F3 -> F4 -> Flare -> transpose = 118,7 p/s

What to do in umbral? With only 1 stack if I instantly jump back to astral it doesn't leave me with much mana to consider other options. If I don't get T procs and don't need to refresh it, I don't have transpose ready.

---

You go either T4 F3 F4 Flare Trans or F3 F4 F4 Flare trans depending if you need to refresh Thunder. F3 F4 Flare is too short.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Waliel

You go either T4 F3 F4 Flare Trans or F3 F4 F4 Flare trans depending if you need to refresh Thunder. F3 F4 Flare is too short.

---

Isn't F2 stronger than F4 on 4+ targets?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VitalSuit

Isn't F2 stronger than F4 on 4+ targets?

---

It is, but they were asking about 3 mobs pre-68. B4 F3 Flare Flare is also better than using F2 for 3-5 enemies and you drop B4 completely on 9+.

Any idea what the blm bis is and the materia for it?

In short achieve 1917 sps and then dh det crit from there