The growing entitlement issues of the casuals

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

It actually goes a bit further than that. For the really hardcore, it's not just a hobby, their lives revolve around it. Back when I played WoW, I knew players would literally spend 8-12 hours per day in game.

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Actually a hobbyist can invest as much time money and effort into their hobby as they do into job and family. I think you can make a distinction between a hardcore gamer and someone for whom gaming is a part of some mania, but the only thing that distinguishes a hobbyist from a pro is one of them gets paid to do it and the other doesn't. In point of fact some hobbyists open businesses based on their hobby. Check out model train stores, or gun dealers and you will find hobbyists working behind the counter.

For those who do this because it feeds some psychological problem you could liken it to a dependency like drug addiction, gambling, or sex addiction. They aren't hardcore gamers they are struggling with some other life issues and escaping into a game.

Well I did say mediocre but I did not mean in term of skill or ability and I understand it was the wrong word choice for what I was trying to say. Anyways my whole point was to say that they should simply quit trying to cater this game around the casual players for the time being considering all the current player base that is still around is the hardcore FFXIV fans. I am not saying cut out solo content because I love to solo just as much as the next guy but they need to focus on pleasing the current fanbase and get some of the people who left to come back and then push out the solo play content later/closer to the PS3 launch. Also being on 10 hours a day doesn't make you a hardcore player all that means is you got the day off or you got more free time than others and there are many elements that define a player as being a hardcore player.

I do like how they are trying to cater to all players but I think they need to find out who is going to support their game the most and add content accordingly. Also not to say casual gamers don't play MMO's because that would obviously be untrue but the demography of people who play do play them would be considered to be hardcore gamers by most. I do consider everyone here on these forums who post more often than not to be of the hardcore FFXIV fanbase even though some of you may not actually be hardcore players and we all care for the well being of this title even though we may not agree on how it should be handled. I apologize for the long winded post but I do think we need to make all people understand the difference between casual and hardcore players without harshly judging others based off silliness.

Casual players want to be able to log in the game and have fun and even though they may have less time to play or want to play by themselves they still want to feel like the time they have spent doing something does not go without reward. Because they have less time doesn't make their time spent any less worthy or precious as the time someone who get to play more.

Hardcore gamers generally play 3-6 hours a day because they do this as their hobby and the idea that they have no lives is completely false. Most of the hardcore players I know work one or two jobs and several of them are Military personnel who work 10 hour shifts and then get home and want to just relax do what they want to do for 3+ hours. Sure there are some of the extreme players out there who are on 8 hours a day and literally have a non existent life outside of game but those kind of people exist everywhere in game and out. That is a discussion for another time and another thread in general.

Maybe instead of aiming to be "hardcore" content, we should think of it moreso on terms of being "challenging". With how XIV is it is still possible to be "hardcore" a hardcore player would be one that push through the fatigue til they could no longer gain xp from that class or switch and cap every class fatigue.

Casual is being able to get something done and feel like you accomplished something, now this thread is 76 pages long so I"m not sure if it's been brought up but what did make XI so tough was the "hardcore" nature of setting up parties in order to get something of low reward to party ratio done. Which is why abyssea is loved by most because of it's "casual" play. While some may say it made things easier, it's only cause of atma and exploits. Without those abyssea would be as annoying as the old 75 content outside lol. What made abyssea brilliant is it offered both casual and hardcore players an outlet to play in with the ability to get things done with less people or use more and tear through certain mobs.

Away from that tangent though ina sense you could say the problem with leves is they made they to concrete, while there were the few leves that could be 40 50 minutes long they never really expanded on it properly which is why it's getting the change it's getting. The other issue are d/cs which totally f over the person doing them since they end up losing their chance at progress which does go against trying to be in favor of casual. All systems in XIV should've been setup to be both casual and hardcore. It would've been possible to make leves that had simple 30 minute task for casual and for those with more time they could've made 45-60 min leves that put you through multiple task. While Casual could've been "Kill x mobs", hardcore could've had "kill x mobs" "retrieve the cargo from the mobs" "bring back to guard" "search out for hideout using clue given".

In that sense while casuals would have the opportunity to do a quick simple task hardcore could be givena more difficult long winded journey but with greater reward.

The thing is from the way beginning of saying how casual shouldn't expect to get the same gear as hardcore, I kinda go against it. The thing is it should take casual 3 times longer to get the gear hardcore can get, or maybe less if they are more skilled.

But ya, I"m kind of curious as to what they are going to try and do to keep the casual mentality but also offer something for hardcores. It seems like they have something in mind I hope when they think of hardcore they think challenge, rather then a journey that just takes longer to do then casual lol.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

It actually goes a bit further than that. For the really hardcore, it's not just a hobby, their lives revolve around it. Back when I played WoW, I knew players would literally spend 8-12 hours per day in game.

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i played ffxi for 20 hrs a day >.> yet i'm here for fun. Not to be an extreme elitists mofo. I dislike tv and there is nothing in my town. And i have a few issues so i'm sorta limited in what I can do. I didn't always level sometimes that 20 hours would be talking in my shell. I was only in 2 endgame LS's both less then 3 mnths due to 1 being elitists, seconbd broke thanks to a german couple and a crazy brit who tried talking over the shall caling most americans lazy. The leader of said shell got screwed over because he was west coast and the brit would get nearly everyone to do runs with him instead of the leader. I stoped doing endgame after that.

So not everyone is like how you claim. You like making generalized comments. :)

24hr respawns is fine as long as theres a 3 windows (10mins each). Noone like to wait for 3 hours of camping a enemy anyway I think thats where its disliked the most is waiting for spawn windows.

Everyone would rather just goto a NM spot and camp it for a short period of time anyway. Even if you missed you could just go back tomorrow and quickly retry again.

Harder the item toget useally is better anyway and its a status symbol that your a good player.

You get what you put into the game. If you dont play the game you dont get jack. Reason noone even playing FFXIV is because it sucks and still in the Alpha stage and also to include were waiting for Leve timers.

If you dont have time to play then you should just quit. MMO's are mainly for people that have lots of time on there hands and including a MMO you gotta pay for you shouldnt be paying then anyway. Not to say even the most hardcores go casual at some point.

The game needs to support both but of course keep hardcore players higher. Simplely balancing this is to just make the armor or equipment hard toget.

Ways a casual player would obtain this is to farm materials in order toget gil to pay for such a item.

Hardcores useally just camp the NMs for the equip.

NMs~materials~high craft= equipment

Ra/Ex equip is important also but where the game is currectly at (Beginning stages). The armor and weapons that can be tradble and crafted should remain strongest. Which is safely to say R50 equipment isnt effected by this.

NMs should start including more useful and rarer materials for crafting.

Players that craft there own equipment should get a bonus for wearing there own creations. Something like a better resist to damaging that piece of equipment.

Cooks should get longer food effects for eating there own food. Something like 30sec-5mins extra depending on the food.

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Originally Posted by Airget

Maybe instead of aiming to be "hardcore" content, we should think of it moreso on terms of being "challenging". With how XIV is it is still possible to be "hardcore" a hardcore player would be one that push through the fatigue til they could no longer gain xp from that class or switch and cap every class fatigue.

Casual is being able to get something done and feel like you accomplished something, now this thread is 76 pages long so I"m not sure if it's been brought up but what did make XI so tough was the "hardcore" nature of setting up parties in order to get something of low reward to party ratio done. Which is why abyssea is loved by most because of it's "casual" play. While some may say it made things easier, it's only cause of atma and exploits. Without those abyssea would be as annoying as the old 75 content outside lol. What made abyssea brilliant is it offered both casual and hardcore players an outlet to play in with the ability to get things done with less people or use more and tear through certain mobs.

Away from that tangent though ina sense you could say the problem with leves is they made they to concrete, while there were the few leves that could be 40 50 minutes long they never really expanded on it properly which is why it's getting the change it's getting. The other issue are d/cs which totally f over the person doing them since they end up losing their chance at progress which does go against trying to be in favor of casual. All systems in XIV should've been setup to be both casual and hardcore. It would've been possible to make leves that had simple 30 minute task for casual and for those with more time they could've made 45-60 min leves that put you through multiple task. While Casual could've been "Kill x mobs", hardcore could've had "kill x mobs" "retrieve the cargo from the mobs" "bring back to guard" "search out for hideout using clue given".

In that sense while casuals would have the opportunity to do a quick simple task hardcore could be givena more difficult long winded journey but with greater reward.

The thing is from the way beginning of saying how casual shouldn't expect to get the same gear as hardcore, I kinda go against it. The thing is it should take casual 3 times longer to get the gear hardcore can get, or maybe less if they are more skilled.

But ya, I"m kind of curious as to what they are going to try and do to keep the casual mentality but also offer something for hardcores. It seems like they have something in mind I hope when they think of hardcore they think challenge, rather then a journey that just takes longer to do then casual lol.

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They need to give us more leve options and lower faction leve credits.

Make faction leve credits like how beastmen seals/kindred seals are in FFXI. Use those faction credits toget a random chance toget good equipment in a boss fight. This would be accessble to everyone and only limitations would be guildleve timers. Even if you were casual you could still attend all your leves anytime but it would take you a bit toget them all done.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

i played ffxi for 20 hrs a day >.> yet i'm here for fun. Not to be an extreme elitists mofo. I dislike tv and there is nothing in my town. And i have a few issues so i'm sorta limited in what I can do. I didn't always level sometimes that 20 hours would be talking in my shell. I was only in 2 endgame LS's both less then 3 mnths due to 1 being elitists, seconbd broke thanks to a german couple and a crazy brit who tried talking over the shall caling most americans lazy. The leader of said shell got screwed over because he was west coast and the brit would get nearly everyone to do runs with him instead of the leader. I stoped doing endgame after that.

So not everyone is like how you claim. You like making generalized comments. :)

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You just said you only sleep for 4 hours a day... unless your asleep and you still play the game.

Best way toget your items ever in a game even if you need a linkshell and players to help is to make your own linkshell and base the events around the time you and other players can attend.

You also need to put the effort in running a linkshell which means you can kiss your casual & social life (real life) goodbye.

Are there any new games out there or strong games going that are still for what you would consider a "Hardcore player" I'm just curious. I know Eve is fun immersive game if your into that.

Seems like 99% of games are for "Casual players".

Ive said this before make the content accesible to all players but still keep the content challenging. Have a variety ofncontent stuff thats a challenge but has an hour limit have other things that can take two to three hours have fight in the open world that are tough as nails that is available to everyone. That way those with time have as many avenues as those with out time. Also there can be challenges like the median trials if your really aren't the faint of heart and really enjoy countless hours tryong to boost a weapon or armour to that highest tier. Than its there for all players to choose like anything else.