Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

I still greatly question the Plenary Indulgence with the way it's written. It still very well may be an AoE heal on everyone nearby, just by 1 person having a stack. So for example, if you have a stack on the tank, and a stack on the dps, it will heal everyone nearby for 500 potency.

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Originally Posted by xNewbx

I still greatly question the Plenary Indulgence with the way it's written. It still very well may be an AoE heal on everyone nearby, just by 1 person having a stack. So for example, if you have a stack on the tank, and a stack on the dps, it will heal everyone nearby for 500 potency.

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That is my interpretation. That's much better than a tank heal, but:
1. Still gated by 20% RNG. There will have to be a tank damage phase ahead of an AoE phase, and then you only get to use it once. Even if the AoE damage phase lasts longer than 15s, you won't be proccing stuff with cure while you're busy doing medicas and such. This is not bad, but it's essentially a free medica proc. Won't exactly be meta changing.
2. 30s duration. Getting more than 1, maybe 2 if you're really lucky, stacks of confession is not realistic at a 20% proc rate... unless you're planning on crazy amounts of overhealing and even then, it's still a toss up on whether it will expire before RNGsus gives you another stack.

The spell being on an instant cast 15 second cooldown is what would make it insane. Even just having one stack is a massive free MP, oGCD, AoE heal. You can get 2 casts of this off per confession stack as well.

I'm p sure confessions are removed by indulgence.

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Originally Posted by xNewbx

The spell being on an instant cast 15 second cooldown is what would make it insane. Even just having one stack is a massive free MP, oGCD, AoE heal. You can get 2 casts of this off per confession stack as well.

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Are you sure that it doesn't consume confession stacks?

If so, that does make it a bit better.
If not... and somewhat even if so... if it was an ungated 15s CD oCGD and you could expect to get the 600 potency level a lot, you would be right. It's the RNG gating that limits the ability's potential.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Playtesters in the media event confirmed lucid dreaming can still be extended by ASTs. So, for them, it's still an lolmp button.

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Yeah but it lasts 3 seconds shorter than Luminiferous Aether so its TOTALLY a nerf. lol I actually only brought it up because some one might try to throw it around and say everyone is ignoring the "bad" and that it wasn't "all good" for the AST.

But seriously this is how ridiculous the "nerfs" to AST were compared to SCH and WHM.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Are you sure that it doesn't consume confession stacks?

If so, that does make it a bit better.
If not... and somewhat even if so... if it was an ungated 15s CD oCGD and you could expect to get the 600 potency level a lot, you would be right. It's the RNG gating that limits the ability's potential.

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No I'm not... But wouldn't it say it removes them? I mean, perhaps not lol.

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Originally Posted by xNewbx

No I'm not... But wouldn't it say it removes them? I mean, perhaps not lol.

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It's a fair point. I guess we'll see.

One way or another, PI is definitely the most interesting addition to WHM's kit. I just still don't think it's enough to carry all the hurt in other areas.

honestly with the changes to WHM, and the nerfs to SCH..... WHMs are in a good spot if people would just see it.

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Originally Posted by Skye_

honestly with the changes to WHM, and the nerfs to SCH..... WHMs are in a good spot if people would just see it.

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It essentially comes down to if people will value WHM's high personal DPS (and ability to augment the main healer's heals a lot), vs SCH's utility. SCH's utility has been considered pretty strong for 4 years now, essentially guaranteeing them their party slot. SCH DPS did take a very big hit, but... their utility didn't, and now they have Chain Stratagem to add to the repertoire.

If WHM gets a meta spot... will I be happy about that? Yes. Will I be happy that AST is OP? Still no.

Just because the cardboiz have also obliterated the fairymen doesn't mean us caneguyz are in a good spot. The balance is bad on most fronts, the tanks are freakin' out and for some reason they nerfed monk. It's pretty rough out there.

I don't know, becoming competitive with second place because they got kneecapped doesn't really fill me with pride for my job. I'd much rather everything was equal rather than WHM and SCH fighting over who's least bad.

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Originally Posted by Metsonm

I don't know, becoming competitive with second place because they got kneecapped doesn't really fill me with pride for my job. I'd much rather everything was equal rather than WHM and SCH fighting over who's least bad.

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And if LB charge isn't especially important... double AST is even a possibility.

Yeah I'm sorry this is all a load of bull. At /best/ we're no worse than we were in HW but that is completely unacceptable when they didn't give us a new healer in favor of 'balancing' the old ones. The moves we got are lackluster and really half baked replacements of other similar things we had before they took them (aka stoneskin = divine benison that didn't require gimmicky flowers. Thin Air = another way to manage MP since Divine Seal got the nerf bat). I'm honestly quite tempted to just bench my WHM until its addressed. Maybe if huge chunks of the healer population jump ship and queue times become unbearable, they'll take a hint.

Anyone noticed how many abilities has WHM compared to AST? It feels bullshit.

Stone (1-2-3-4)
Cure
Aero(1-2)
Medica
Ressurection
Fluid Aura
Repose
Cure II
Presence of Mind
Regen
Cure III
Holy
Medica II
Benediction
Asylum
Assize
Tetragrammaton
Thin Air
Divine Benison
Plenary Indulgence

Only 20 freaking abilities only 20!!!

Now compare to AST

Malefic (1-2-3)
Benefic
Combust (1-2)
Lightspeed
Helios
Ascend
Essential Dignity
Benefic II
Draw (Undraw)
Diurnal Aspect
Aspected Benefic/Nocturnal Sect
Royal Road
Spread
Aspected Helios
Redraw
Synastry
Gravity
Time Dilation
Collective Unconscious
Celestial Opposition
Earthly Star
Minor Arcana
Sleeve Draw

AST - 23 (without counting the effects of each card)
WHM - 20 (with no buffs to your allies)

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Originally Posted by AlphaSonic

Anyone noticed how many abilities has WHM compared to AST? It feels bullshit.

Stone (1-2-3-4)
Cure
Aero(1-2)
Medica
Ressurection
Fluid Aura
Repose
Cure II
Presence of Mind
Regen
Cure III
Holy
Medica II
Benediction
Asylum
Assize
Tetragrammaton
Thin Air
Divine Benison
Plenary Indulgence

Only 20 freaking abilities only 20!!!

Now compare to AST

Malefic (1-2-3)
Benefic
Combust (1-2)
Lightspeed
Helios
Ascend
Essential Dignity
Benefic II
Draw (Undraw)
Diurnal Aspect
Aspected Benefic/Nocturnal Sect
Royal Road
Spread
Aspected Helios
Redraw
Synastry
Gravity
Time Dilation
Collective Unconscious
Celestial Opposition
Earthly Star
Minor Arcana
Sleeve Draw

AST - 23 (without counting the effects of each card)
WHM - 20 (with no buffs to your allies)

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They'd be even if SE didn't just get rid of the Stoneskins and Divine Seal from us. *coughcough* Despite all of that you may as well subtract another two because no one uses Fluid Aura and Repose in PvE. >_>

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Originally Posted by BroodingFicus

/snip

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Agreed. The thought is tempting me as well. Love Thin Air but not crazy about everything else and I've been a WHM since 2.3. All 3 healers are still in the same position as 3.5 now. WHM is still an inferior AST, SCH has had their fairy heals and DPS nerfed but they still have more utility and mitigation, and AST is still overpowered even more so now. Their way of balancing everything is hilarious.

I mean if the only redeeming balance against AST vs WHM is that WHM has 20% more DPS and better MP consumption than AST I'm still taking AST.

Better mp consumption than AST is debatable, since AST can stash Ewer card and even get more Ewer cards while having one stashed. Not to mention extend duration of all MP regens + different potencies and durations. Id say they almost even.

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Originally Posted by Verdan

Just because the cardboiz have also obliterated the fairymen doesn't mean us caneguyz are in a good spot. The balance is bad on most fronts, the tanks are freakin' out and for some reason they nerfed monk. It's pretty rough out there.

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What the hell is SE thinking?

It is like they are trying to flop.

Imagine if we had 3 new skills. Can you imagine 3 new skills for us? There's so much they could give us!

Let's stop wasting our virtual breath. The question is: level it and complain at 70, or just boycott the class and make them wonder why people aren't playing it. I admit, I'm having trouble deciding which myself. I have a feeling the latter might be more effective but... *shrug*

Any way we could also consolidate the incoming SCH post and renaming the thread to add SCH to title?

See the thing I keep thinking about is what the encounters will be... dungeons primal raids. Will we step in them and suddenly realize how crucial pure healing is going to be? We know the current content only. No patch notes or demo is showing us what we are in store for. Yes old content will feel off with these changes but they couldn't just change that all too only what we have moving forward.

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Originally Posted by Virin

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The problem with that is then if that much healing is needed, neither SCH nor AST would be able to clear it. that would be against heir "everything is viable" line that they keep throwing at us.

Well if we are expected to spend time casting Cure1 and Cure2 non stop to even use most of the 61-70 skills...half the party prob be dead..lol

Alright, time to hunker down and wait for 4.3 or so! If HW was any guide, SE will see not enough people playing WHM (and possibly SCH) so they will give crazy buffs to put a band-aid on the situation until 5.0 happens! I can just imagine it...

SE: We're going to introduce two new jobs in 5.0: a tank and a DPS!
Players: Wha... what about healers?!
SE: We need to take time to re-balance the healer classes so we won't be adding another until 6.0. Please understand.
Players: (collective groans)

Just a little surprised when I saw the final skill list just released. They said in the recent E3 that they have made many changes since April.....there is barely any changes from the original. Trying to get confession stacks to even use lvl 70 skill is gonna be so painful.

Update - Just noticed Divine Benison cooldown turned to 30 sec, which honestly is a pretty decent bonus for an instant shield.

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Originally Posted by Aphro

Update - Just noticed Divine Benison cooldown turned to 30 sec, which honestly is a pretty decent bonus for an instant shield.

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This still feels like a straight up nerf. Divine Benison is just an un-traited, single target, instant cast, StoneSkin ability with a 30 second cool down. White Mage doesn't get any damage mitigation until Lv.66 which just seems ridiculous if we're going to be honest. This is worsened by the fact that SCH & AST also have access to instant cast shields, that unlike Divine Benison also recover health, that can be spammed because they have virtually no cooldown and are obtained at Lvs 35-50. Not to mention they both also get access to AoE shield abilities which also recover health that are still obtained before WHM can even gain access to their crappy, nerfed, renamed Stoneskin.

I don't even play White Mage, ( I main AST ) but I was really hoping to see WHM get some real love this swing around. It's getting old only seeing AST/SCH and that doesn't look like it's going to change in 4.0.

SCH is hurting too, at this point.

Not much more to talk about with 25 minutes to early access. I'm still bullish on WHM due to dps, mp, ogcd, and the drastic changes to everyones combat skills. Time to see how it feels, and get some parse data.

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Originally Posted by Kethic

SCH is hurting too, at this point.

Not much more to talk about with 25 minutes to early access. I'm still bullish on WHM due to dps, mp, ogcd, and the drastic changes to everyones combat skills. Time to see how it feels, and get some parse data.

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Yep. Feels like the only Healer that's happy right now is AST. Let's hope everything works out for the best, otherwise WHM/SCH will be sitting around staring at AST until SE does something.

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Originally Posted by Cupcakesu

WHM/SCH will be sitting around staring at AST until SE overbuffs them.

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To be honest, with the direction we're going now they'd probably just buff AST again and act confused when people got upset...

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Originally Posted by Kyeria

To be honest, with the direction we're going now they'd probably just buff AST again and act confused when people got upset...

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Sadly that would not surprise me

Agreed but I dunno....i feel like if I can manage to get at least one confession stack on someone id be good to go essentially. Pray to the 12 RNG gods.

And Divine Benison will be less than 30 seconds due to lillies (not much lesser)

I think I can make WHM work, just need to not use regen as often and cure 2 forever. lol

It will take some getting used to -- changing the way we heal and spending more time casting cure/cure2 but somehow i feel with the death of cleric stance I feel more free to use cure/cure2 compared to before.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

Sadly that would not surprise me

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To be honest, this expansion has made me feel kind of dirty/guilty playing AST. I feel like people are going to look down more harshly on AST players because of how screwed their jobs were with this expansion. People were already asking for the job to be beheaded in 3.0 for the large discrepancies between healer viability it had back then. AST has been my favorite healer since release, even back when it was garbage...

I was really hoping that WHM/SCH would get more love this time around. 1: So everyone could enjoy their jobs and 2: So that the idea of a new healer job wouldn't be some distant, far off dream...
Sadly, the new changes do not make me very optimistic that the jobs are going to be balanced in a healthy way. I fear they're going to have to reinvent WHM/SCH again and put new healer jobs on the back burner...again.
/sigh

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Originally Posted by Aphro

Agreed but I dunno....I think I can make WHM work.

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I hope for you WHM's that's true! I just hope this done in a healthy way that ( WHM Mains ) can actually enjoy the job and have fun.
I'd hate for people to feel stuck and play the job just because of previous time invested.

We won't know for sure until people have a chance to test it out, but man...on paper it sure looks bad. :(

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

Sadly that would not surprise me

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You just gotta buff The Balance to achieve better balance, no?

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Originally Posted by Zojha

You just gotta buff The Balance to achieve better balance, no?

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4.1 Patch Notes. "The Balance now has a unique passive that prevents it from losing efficiency when used as an AoE. Increases target's damage dealt by 20% --> 50% to single targets and to group targets. Duration: 30s --> 60s

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Originally Posted by Kyeria

4.1 Patch Notes. "The Balance now has a unique passive that prevents it from losing efficiency when used as an AoE. Increases target's damage dealt by 20% --> 50% to single targets and to group targets. Duration: 30s --> 60s

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You monster. ;A;

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Originally Posted by Wanzer

You monster. ;A;

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With these great ideas, one would think I'd be on the development team!

Am I the only one surprised they didn't change Plenary Indulgence at all? Like I'm kind of surprised it functions the same way it did in the media tour...