Bard - they broke my job

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Originally Posted by Johaan

...might actually play BRD or MCH now since the stance dancing adds a whole new layer on how jobs play.

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Do it then come back to this thread and see if feel the same. Practical knowledge/experience might give you a different perspective instead of an outsider looking in through tinted glass and leaving snide comments or mere assumptions.

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Originally Posted by Johaan

party wide buffs

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Actually, if it meant I could do more DPS during the times where songs aren't needed, I'd gladly give up "Party-wide" buffs in an instant.

I've said it before and I guess I have to say it again, "party-wide" means nothing. Your melee/tanks will not need MP. Your casters won't either if they're played right. Your healers might, although less likely if people don't keep dying and draining MP on revives.

So let's say I'm doing a 4-person dungeon with a warrior, white mage, dragoon, and bard. In that case, what does it matter if my ballad affects 4 people or 1?

Let's say I'm in a raid with a WAR, PLD, WHM, SCH, BRD, MNK, BLM, and DRG. Why does it matter if my song affects the entire party if only 2 people are even possibly going to benefit from it and the other 6 won't?

Players are already pulling good numbers on Alex and with time the rotation will get figured out even better and it will be alright. I think it is still too early to be doomsayers. I like the changes to my main job and I am very happy with the buff we got. That is how it should have been from the start. I just wish they would up our weapon damage and drop the penalty to -10%. That would be ideal.

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Originally Posted by Mikedizzy

Players are already pulling good numbers on Alex and with time the rotation will get figured out even better and it will be alright.

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From what I have seen the only thing really keeping our output up is the reliance on multi-dotting but in fights where that is not possible our output does seem to drop substantially. Something to also keep in mind is all current parsers especially ACT which most people have been shown using in these arguments does not accurately register your DoT's or HoT's, it 'simulates' or another way of putting it is estimates your DoT and HoT output. Since the parses with decent output so far mostly rely on those DoT estimations I wouldn't go taking those parses as 100% accurate.

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Originally Posted by Arrik

Yep, and the gap is still the same, and the mindset behind it is still there.


Really? Because I don't see 4 SMN in that fight, or BLM. I'd don't want to parse better than melee, I want to parse as a Caster, in Caster stance.

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Gap between casters? Or melee? At least the brd can multidot efficiently in the fight. I want to do that as a melee.

Blm have worst cast times than brd. Brds don't hold up to theirs.

They could have run 4 smns of that level, it would have been faster. The melee were not needed except to maybe use lb. If brds did the same, their bursts would be higher and they would be even faster than than the smns.

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Originally Posted by Leonus

Blm have worst cast times than brd. Brds don't hold up to theirs.

The could have run 4 smns, it would have been faster. If brds did the same, their bursts would be higher and they would be even faster than than the smns.

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Yes, and there are threads about BLMs too. I want all the casters to be about equal.

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Actually, if it meant I could do more DPS during the times where songs aren't needed, I'd gladly give up "Party-wide" buffs in an instant.

I've said it before and I guess I have to say it again, "party-wide" means nothing. Your melee/tanks will not need MP. Your casters won't either if they're played right. Your healers might, although less likely if people don't keep dying and draining MP on revives.

So let's say I'm doing a 4-person dungeon with a warrior, white mage, dragoon, and bard. In that case, what does it matter if my ballad affects 4 people or 1?

Let's say I'm in a raid with a WAR, PLD, WHM, SCH, BRD, MNK, BLM, and DRG. Why does it matter if my song affects the entire party if only 2 people are even possibly going to benefit from it and the other 6 won't?

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Really... Lets not go to deep into word play now.... brd is still a party supporter with their songs, in a perfect world where people play their roles to 100% of their ability, you "might" have a point, but shit happens, people make mistakes, take extra dmg, die. especially in a progression raid parties.

Have a ninja in your party to goad people? great play some foes for your casters, shit hits the fan and healers need MP? switch to ballad, no ninja and tanks need TP or meeles died and are TP starved? Peon it is. its all about class synergy and balance. which some people have trouble looking at.

wouldn't use 4 man dungeons to gauge a jobs performance.

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Originally Posted by Johaan

wouldn't use 4 man dungeons to gauge a jobs performance.

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

Actually, if it meant I could do more DPS during the times where songs aren't needed, I'd gladly give up "Party-wide" buffs in an instant.

I've said it before and I guess I have to say it again, "party-wide" means nothing. Your melee/tanks will not need MP. Your casters won't either if they're played right. Your healers might, although less likely if people don't keep dying and draining MP on revives.

So let's say I'm doing a 4-person dungeon with a warrior, white mage, dragoon, and bard. In that case, what does it matter if my ballad affects 4 people or 1?

Let's say I'm in a raid with a WAR, PLD, WHM, SCH, BRD, MNK, BLM, and DRG. Why does it matter if my song affects the entire party if only 2 people are even possibly going to benefit from it and the other 6 won't?

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Reading comprehension, yo.

Edit: The point is, we have party wide buffs that never affect the whole pt, and yet people seem to think they are some grand thing. Also, Battle Litany says hi. Also, before you chime in "Battle Litany isn't up as long as you have MP," Battle Litany is balanced around recast, ours around MP. Ours shouldn't be MP, 15% damage, and a 10% WD decrease.

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Originally Posted by Johaan

wouldn't use 4 man dungeons to gauge a jobs performance.

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Yeah, lots of people like to ignore them despite the fact that they're the majority of the game and raiding is a minority.

Doesn't change the fact that it doesn't matter if the spells are single target or party-wide. If it meant I'd be able to do better DPS for the 95% of the time where I'm not playing songs, I'd gladly have my songs become single target.

I don't understand what this thread is doing in the DPS roles forum. BRD is a support class, your bottom tier dps would be more fitting in the Healer forums since they also support other classes. You're MP healers, an accessory to the WHM and SCH.