Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

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Originally Posted by Gaddes

The biggest insult will be if the lip shapes in Mobile end up looking more like what we actually wanted compared to what we were cursed with in DT and have been begging for ever since the start of this expansion...

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The fact that the CN and JP versions of the announcement site have a passage about how they went about faithfully recreating the original models(that is strangely absent from the EN version) makes me think that Lightspeed did a better job than CS3.

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Originally Posted by Peachyyyy

I'm feeling this pretty strongly today too. I don't really care about the rest of the general graphics, most things look worse and some things look better, but that doesn't effect me the way my characters face does, I still struggle with it. I just miss my old miqo and au ra, they look so lifeless and sometimes just kinda gross like plastic now. so yeah I'm still not over it either and probably will never be. I definitely play a lot less and this is why.

I'll link my original comparison of my miqo, which is outdated now but I do feel like it still accurately showcases the plastic look. It just bothers me, makes me feel ick.
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6566320

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lmao, what? The new version looks so much better.

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Originally Posted by lunartears

Has anyone seen screenshots of FFXIV Mobile? Just released in China recently but some are managing to access it regardless. It looks like a middle ground between EW and DT, like the character graphics update we never had. Maybe I am being too optimistic based on the little I have seen though. Also it currently only has ARR races so I can't look at anything Au Ra-related. :(

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Originally Posted by Gaddes

The biggest insult will be if the lip shapes in Mobile end up looking more like what we actually wanted compared to what we were cursed with in DT and have been begging for ever since the start of this expansion...

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Well, I had to see for myself and... well... now I almost wish I hadn't.
Here's the comparison, with me copying the same settings for ALL versions of my character to each. I think objectively the mobile game did a BETTER job of sprucing up the original elements. The eyebrows and scars are definitely more like the original than DT. The eyes, while a little different, have more of the leaner shape of the original than the wide DT ones.
And to add insult to injury, the lips are DEFINITELY based off of the original ones, with more volume in the upper lip and without the awful generic tapered-ends and giant lower lip shape of DT. (I couldn't see where to remove the glossiness on the lips, but the shape alone should be obvious here)

https://i.imgur.com/OnW5tdB.jpeg

link to larger full-res image

And on top of that, the haircut looks better and fuller in the mobile version!?
C'mon devs, wtf is happening here... the mobile folks can make a closer version, why can't CB3??

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

lmao, what? The new version looks so much better.

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I'm sure there's no point arguing with you, the same point can only be said so many times. but I'll say it anyway. Yes, it looks generally better because they improved the lighting. It would still look better if they kept the face shape and features the same, which they didn't.

edit: It's also irrelevant to me if you think the new face features look better. It's my character, not yours.

why does cloth, and jiggle physics become worse with higher framerates? Shouldn't it be the opposite?

Has anybody else still been really, really bummed out with the limbal ring changes for Au Ra? Of course, I still don't think they should go back to how they looked in 7.0, because that version of limbal rings ruined characters who specifically did go for the bright, glowing look, but the way they've looked for the past...nearly 8 months now(?) has in turn felt character-ruining for those who intentionally chose the darkest color options for a duller, two-tone look.

For example, this color,
https://i.imgur.com/4iXkXyb.png
consistently looked like this pre-Dawntrail under basically all lighting, since it wasn't a color that was supposed to emit much glow:
https://i.imgur.com/d67Vq9S.png

But ever since 7.1, this color now glows to the point it looks white instead of grey under far too many lighting conditions. This image was cropped during clear weather in Ul'dah at 12pm Eorzea time:
https://i.imgur.com/zOPiMod.png

The humongous new pupil size obviously doesn't help either, since it basically eats up the entire main color for female Auri eyes, but I feel like I'd get over that more easily if the darker limbal ring options were still accurate to their previous versions...

It just sucks to see this issue under "working as intended" when this level of glow for duller colors looks like ass for a lot of characters and NPCs (Yugiri comes to mind). I promise, to this day, I've been genuinely trying to get over it, but I just...can't, especially when I see old screenshots.

My character's eyes don't look right with or without limbal rings anymore, and I just think it remains incredible that, in spite of all of their reassurance, there is ultimately no in-game fix for people who intentionally chose colors with less of a glow.

I know it's not a hot topic anymore specifically, but I seriously miss the consistency from the old drawn-on limbal rings... I've basically given up hope but I wanted to post just in case this might still get looked into.

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Originally Posted by lunartears

Has anyone seen screenshots of FFXIV Mobile? Just released in China recently but some are managing to access it regardless. It looks like a middle ground between EW and DT, like the character graphics update we never had. Maybe I am being too optimistic based on the little I have seen though. Also it currently only has ARR races so I can't look at anything Au Ra-related. :(

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I also did a comparison and the mobile version is basically the update that we didn't get. Keep in mind the mobile character creator also doesn't have the strange fish eye camera warping that the pc version does. The lighting is generally better with less of that green/gray tint or intense brightness in some places.

Edit 2: Please check another post for an updated comparison

Similarities:
Most notably here, his mouth, eyebrows, jaw shape, and eyebags are faithfully recreated. The slightly pursed lips are literally perfect. Even the eye color is more accurate because in the pc version, it looks like a pale lavender in a lot of lighting despite picking the dark purple. The eyes are perfect, the camera warping in the cc isn't helping the pc version. The skin does not have the uncanny plastic sheen in any lighting that I've been able to check so far.

Differences: None of the nose options were exactly the same but it would have been a change I could have lived with (the side profile looks quite similar). Please excuse the hair since the usual hair isn't available yet.

It's been heartbreaking to see the characters I miss on the tiny screen and and where none of the history that I've built up is in.

Edit: Just kidding! There is a nose option that is closer to the original. The mobile version is better in pretty much every way.
Edit 2: Please check another post for an updated comparison

I can't help but wonder if the mobile build was using the pre-DT models as a base to work off of, vs the DT ones we're stuck with now. It would certainly explain why the mobile game seems to be closer to the alleged vision of "not changing your characters" that we were promised. I generally don't agree with most of the stuff people are saying the mobile version does better, but in this case I certainly do.

I never gave the mobile ff14 a try myself but I did asked a friend out of curiosity to show me some screenies - most of male midlanders looks are about what I imagined to be the upgrades I was hoping to see after they had shown us the first update demo from one and a half year ago. Most noticeable would be the pouty lips that I sorely missed. or rather, 'would have', for reasons one must not spout freely on this board :p

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Originally Posted by Doopliss

Has anybody else still been really, really bummed out with the limbal ring changes for Au Ra?[...]

[...]I know it's not a hot topic anymore specifically, but I seriously miss the consistency from the old drawn-on limbal rings... I've basically given up hope but I wanted to post just in case this might still get looked into.

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I may not play Au Ra, but I believe the general sentiment is shared by many, silent or not. I do too, on my main middies.

Only outright admittance of design choice, or reversal will get me to stop b!tching once & for all.

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Originally Posted by Gaddes

https://i.imgur.com/OnW5tdB.jpeg

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Wow, even the little UV warp on the scar (the edge that doesn't go in a straight line) is identical. I thought "ok, this has to mean that they're using the exact same models as 6.X with better textures" but no, the chin on mobile has more polygons (it might even have more polygons than the 7.X one...).
(Glossiness aside, the normal map on the lips looks off, though, not sure what happened there.)

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Originally Posted by Doopliss

Has anybody else still been really, really bummed out with the limbal ring changes for Au Ra?

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I'm just gonna re-link to what is basically an extensive debug report I wrote on the Japanese forums on that matter.

What are the odds that if a lot of people said they loved and preferred the graphic design of the mobile version, the devs would update the main game's graphics to be more like it? At least for character design graphics?

I don't know how my character would look in the mobile version yet, but with what I'm seeing so far, I'd be surprised if it had the harsh sharpie eyebrows...

It's almost been a year later since the graphics update came out and I still miss how my character used to look before the update. So many things have not been fixed at all, including many different things which causes motion sickness, etc. It feels like I am just yelling into the void now at this point though, I am not sure if I will ever get used to things how they are now.

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Originally Posted by SchwarzwaelderTorte

Wow, even the little UV warp on the scar (the edge that doesn't go in a straight line) is identical. I thought "ok, this has to mean that they're using the exact same models as 6.X with better textures" but no, the chin on mobile has more polygons (it might even have more polygons than the 7.X one...).
(Glossiness aside, the normal map on the lips looks off, though, not sure what happened there.)

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Yeah admittedly there's something a little weird going on with the outline of the upper lip in Mobile, it's a little smudgey/asymmetrical, but the key is that the mouth curve (in red below) is an almost identical match with the OG mouth, as opposed to the DT one that's really just a simple flat shape.
The Mobile guys definitely based their work off of pre-DT faces, while the DT guys... I dunno what they were doing. And you're right, the chin for Mobile is much smoother than the main game's.

https://i.imgur.com/KxJDvq4.jpeg

Sighs loudly

https://i.imgur.com/zxLuM83.png

It's a problem when a tencent game got the brief better.
- Correct brow normal maps
- Lips aren't messed up (they're not just a bracket line LOL)
- Eyes in general don't look as weird despite darker pupils vs the DT ones with the blown out mega pupils and black colour

At the right angle the jeweled pupils still kind of exist in Mobile, but the size of them absolutely helps lessen the impact of them being generally darker with expressions so they look more like what femroe used to be instead of unsettlingly uncanny. This also shows the normal map for the brows... actually existing. Whodathunk it'd make such a drastic change vs flat barbie-doll uniformity polymesh.

(Oh, right, all of us who use this face and have given feedback for OVER TWELVE MONTHS.)

https://i.imgur.com/c8dLoiJ.png

If I could just... meld them together into some amalgamation (old style shaping, normal maps, *jewel eyes*, but higher quality textures) it'd be great.

Can anyone that tried the mobile version create male Midlander face 3 with beard please.
I wanna see high res texture beard… give me high res beard…

Thancred has his original model in the mobile version. I'm glad it lives on in some way, but I'm so sad that we can't see it in the main game anymore. Please SE, give us back our Scion :(

Thancred's face thread

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Originally Posted by moodud

Can anyone that tried the mobile version create male Midlander face 3 with beard please.
I wanna see high res texture beard… give me high res beard…

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Here you go:

https://i.imgur.com/ZQdLwcr.png

I noticed immediately that in the mobile port both Midlander women and Lalafells have that dark, upper eye shading that gave their eyes that gentler appearance pre-DT.

I hate glazing macrotransactional mobile games for basically anything, but the fact they now have another version of the game with a different team that remade the models from scratch--who kept character design more accurate and consistent in many ways--is not a good look for them.

Does anybody know if male Duskwights kept their unique, clearer face textures in the mobile version? In the main game, they only managed to fix the textures for Face 2 ♂ Duskwights in 7.1, and no other fixes for any of their other faces have happened since then. I know in JP a lot of users have been trying to get Face 3 fixed still, specifically.

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Originally Posted by Doopliss

Does anybody know if male Duskwights kept their unique, clearer face textures in the mobile version? In the main game, they only managed to fix the textures for Face 2 ♂ Duskwights in 7.1, and no other fixes for any of their other faces have happened since then. I know in JP a lot of users have been trying to get Face 3 fixed still, specifically.

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Just some quick shots before I go to work (let me know if I can help get more later!)

https://i.imgur.com/pMeViCV.png

https://i.imgur.com/q8YzRSG.png

https://i.imgur.com/C1hZpHo.png

https://i.imgur.com/2fqtz0i.png

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Originally Posted by faiarrow

Just some quick shots before I go to work (let me know if I can help get more later!)

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Thank you so much!

Interestingly, though, it looks like male Duskwight do still have the dark undereyes in this version. Even Face 2 has them in this version, in spite of their fix in 7.1... While I don't really hold much judgement for an entirely different team making models from the ground up for an essentially different game, I'm surprised this detail has gone unnoticed by designers every time outside of the 1.0 -> 2.0 transition. It does give a pretty drastic impression difference...

I'll post my own main character as well. Here's the change from Endwalker to Dawntrail that I've been complaining about for a year now:

https://i.imgur.com/AlpjgEw.png

That completely different mouth shape, those rounder and heavier eyelids, the faded eyebrows and so on.

And then we have the mobile version:

https://i.imgur.com/pvH1y2v.png
https://i.imgur.com/oaO8FbW.png

I just had to post him in all backgrounds, because look: not only are the sharper lines back, the creases of his eyelids actually disappear under different lighting conditions again and he once more looks bright and alert! That's the default expression I chose. That's my lad. And the eyebrows are thicker and darker, too!

One thing I do prefer in Dawntrail and it's the fully closed mouth. I know some people with female Keepers at least wanted that gap back, however, so maybe there could be a toggle when they get around to updating the character creator.

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Originally Posted by Doopliss

I noticed immediately that in the mobile port both Midlander women and Lalafells have that dark, upper eye shading that gave their eyes that gentler appearance pre-DT.

I hate glazing macrotransactional mobile games for basically anything, but the fact they now have another version of the game with a different team that remade the models from scratch--who kept character design more accurate and consistent in many ways--is not a good look for them.

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It bothers me a lot, really. I'm not planning to actually play this mobile version, but it feels bad to see how improved and faithful to the original model my character would look on mobile and not being able to have that.

In a way I'm almost glad the mobile game is currently ARR only, and therefore doesn't have Au Ra as a playable race yet... I still mourn the loss of my character's old face and I think seeing a comparison with the mobile version, which would likely be a more accurate "upgrade" vs what we got, would just be too upsetting.
It's so frustrating knowing that likely part of the reason these models are looking better is because Tencent has more than enough money to throw at whatever - and XIV itself does bring in that level of money too, especially since they are licensing out the game for this mobile version! But Square would rather use that cash to fund literally everything but the game that's actually making them money. That's a discussion for another topic, though.... but I wouldn't be surprised if the subpar changes we got stuck with in the actual game were due to XIV seeing barely a fraction of what money it makes. Why care about actually upholding that promise to preserve the original appearances of people's characters when you aren't getting paid enough to do so...

I mean the warning about it being more faithful was there from the start... on the Chinese and Japanese language pages only for XIV mobile. Not the English one. :)

But I also like to stress that this studio also have been doing this under full supervision of CS3/SQEX. So this is just making the complacency comment Yoshida made in the PLL worse, imo. I am absolutely bitter. I have a lot of JP feedback to write again this weekend from this, not how I want to spend a day but here we are on the over a year long crusade now to get our characters back.

Because this is my character. This is what a femroe should look like. Not a super smooth doll face, someone with actual shapes and hard lines and something clearly non-human-esque going on. Even with the jewel eyes missing there's so much more that's normal she doesn't look uncanny anymore, and it's depressing that level of care went into a money-hungry mobile game vs. the (also money-hungry, given they're bleeding subs since pre-DT) main release.

https://i.imgur.com/oTa62BE.png

https://i.imgur.com/VOQYTKW.png
(They even fixed the side lock issue in this version... something that not even the DT "upgrade" did - where they made it worse.)

https://i.imgur.com/1yFixTD.png

https://i.imgur.com/J5masiT.png

(psst how do I get my hands on the mobile version)

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Originally Posted by SchwarzwaelderTorte

(psst how do I get my hands on the mobile version)

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(slides this your way)

C...Can someone check the eyebrows on Elezen male on the mobile version? From the screenshots earlier it looks to be much similar than the DT versions...

Actually I am also curious, are the expressions and emotes more faithful to EW? There's been some weird morphing of the mouth in particular when smiling for DT emotes. The JP thread has a lot of pictures of those, if anyone is curious.

Could someone please re-create this female Lalafell character recipe in the mobile version?

Plainsfolk, Face 1: Jaw 4, Eye Shape 6, Iris Size: Small, Nose 6 (Skin tone: Palest you can get, Eyes and Hair: White, Hairstyle: Twin drills with the braid at the back (not sure what number it is), Facial Features: Eyeshadow)

It's a similar design to my own Lalafell character but without some minor details as I'm fixated on the facial structure and eyes.

It would be greatly appreciated, my phone storage is maxed out and I don't really want to go through the means of getting this to work on PC.

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Originally Posted by Liamont

C...Can someone check the eyebrows on Elezen male on the mobile version? From the screenshots earlier it looks to be much similar than the DT versions...

Actually I am also curious, are the expressions and emotes more faithful to EW? There's been some weird morphing of the mouth in particular when smiling for DT emotes. The JP thread has a lot of pictures of those, if anyone is curious.

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Recreating my character's husband in the CC and he doesn't have the weird caveman super muscle brow that DT gave us (Urianger has this problem too because they both use the same base face; half of it is the normal map is really weird on the new morph.) The mouths being like the ARR-EW models makes the expressions a lot better.

https://i.imgur.com/ScA0QuA.png

https://i.imgur.com/I2Npt2n.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/kCXKqry.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/YsDFLlr.jpeg

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Originally Posted by lunartears

Could someone please re-create this female Lalafell character recipe in the mobile version?

Plainsfolk, Face 1: Jaw 4, Eye Shape 6, Iris Size: Small, Nose 6 (Skin tone: Palest you can get, Eyes and Hair: White, Hairstyle: Twin drills with the braid at the back (not sure what number it is), Facial Features: Eyeshadow)

It's a similar design to my own Lalafell character but without some minor details as I'm fixated on the facial structure and eyes.

It would be greatly appreciated, my phone storage is maxed out and I don't really want to go through the means of getting this to work on PC.

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Sadly the twindrill style isn't in the game yet, but I did everything else per instruction as best I could. Hope these help ;;

https://i.imgur.com/9MBXvWz.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/mGwY6KY.png

https://i.imgur.com/pv8c8jj.png

https://i.imgur.com/FXmJnzu.png

Yeah white colours in mobile absolutely are more full on—just of like how white in DT is more extreme too for things like hair as well. The button nose actually being a proper button nose again though in mobile is just... it's like YES it can be done! It doesn't have to be a wireframe of 1000 points condensed really weirdly with human nostrils! But then... its stuck in mobile.

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Originally Posted by lunartears

Also, did Roegadyn's pupils get bigger in DT, or is it just the black causing that effect? Something about the mobile ver comes across as more like EW (other than the coloured pupils missing).

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Yeah they did :( It's part of what compounds the really weird thing going on with expressions for them because femroe expressions squint the eyes a lot and the huge black void makes it very... creepy? (idk how else to describe it.) If the pupils were coloured (a mock up example here) it does negate some of that but if they went the tencent way I'd accept it because at least it doesn't look heinous.

Wouldn’t mind seeing my Lala in mobile if anyone has the time. :) Don’t know if they’re using the exact same numbers for things, but I’ll give mine below anyway.

Dunesfolk female, face 1, palest skin color, hair (229.193.122 base, 140.172.151 highlights), jaw 1, eyes 4 (28.51.53), iris large, eyebrows 2, nose 5, mouth 2 (lip color dark 161.65.56), ears 1 (shortest), facial features just #1, face paint double stars (49.107.120)

Hairstyle: spikey ponytail with side bang
https://i.imgur.com/tPUKmQ6.jpeg

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Originally Posted by Khryseis_Astra

Wouldn’t mind seeing my Lala in mobile if anyone has the time. :) Don’t know if they’re using the exact same numbers for things, but I’ll give mine below anyway.

Dunesfolk female, face 1, palest skin color, hair (229.193.122 base, 140.172.151 highlights), jaw 1, eyes 4 (28.51.53), iris large, eyebrows 2, nose 5, mouth 2 (lip color dark 161.65.56), ears 1 (shortest), facial features just #1, face paint double stars (49.107.120)

Hairstyle: spikey ponytail with side bang
https://i.imgur.com/tPUKmQ6.jpeg

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Sure, here goes:

https://i.imgur.com/Vdujq08.png

The colour picker is slightly different on mobile, but I hope I got them right. Also, the hairstyle isn't available (fairly small selection at this point), so I just picked one that didn't cover the face paint. Is facial feature #1 the longer eyebrows one? That was moved to the last spot on mobile for some reason... Anyway, let me know if I should tweak something.

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Originally Posted by Sairaag

Sure, here goes:

https://i.imgur.com/Vdujq08.png

The colour picker is slightly different on mobile, but I hope I got them right. Also, the hairstyle isn't available (fairly small selection at this point), so I just picked one that didn't cover the face paint. Is facial feature #1 the longer eyebrows one? That was moved to the last spot on mobile for some reason... Anyway, let me know if I should tweak something.

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Oh she looks good! :D Thanks for taking the time! And it looks like you got everything right. (Yes that’s the correct facial feature too.)

One thing I notice between mine and the others posted is that they did a much better job on the eyes! And the lips!

Shame they don’t have all the hairstyles in there yet. That ponytail was my old style and I thought it was just one of the more basic ones. Maybe by the time it releases in NA they’ll have more.

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Originally Posted by Khryseis_Astra

Oh she looks good! :D Thanks for taking the time! And it looks like you got everything right. (Yes that’s the correct facial feature too.)

One thing I notice between mine and the others posted is that they did a much better job on the eyes! And the lips!

Shame they don’t have all the hairstyles in there yet. That ponytail was my old style and I thought it was just one of the more basic ones. Maybe by the time it releases in NA they’ll have more.

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Great, you're welcome!

I was surprised to see so few hairstyles in such a cosmetics-heavy game. My first hairstyle wasn't there either, so maybe it wasn't in ARR. (I imagine there'll be a lot of paid ones, though.)

Some of the free stuffs in PC version are indeed paid stuff in mobile version.

I.e. the Glacial Robe.

Thank you all who are putting in the extra effort to give us these comparisons. I can't access the mobile version either right now, so would anyone be willing to remake my Midlander?

F Midlander, Face 1
Jaw 1
Eye 5, Large Iris
Brow 4
Nose 4
Mouth 4
Facial Features 2 and 4 (eyeliner and beauty mark)
Face Paint 1

Colors here:
https://i.imgur.com/Quwrgzq.png

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Originally Posted by noumen0nn

Thank you all who are putting in the extra effort to give us these comparisons. I can't access the mobile version either right now, so would anyone be willing to remake my Midlander?

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Of course <3
I picked the closest visual hair (right-side sweep) to your normal to give a close approximation feel, but all data should be pretty much a match to what you gave above.

https://i.imgur.com/HdkUOdE.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/CAxShdT.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/7bHb8Tg.png

https://i.imgur.com/Dl240PG.jpeg

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Originally Posted by faiarrow

Of course <3
I picked the closest visual hair (right-side sweep) to your normal to give a close approximation feel, but all data should be pretty much a match to what you gave above.

https://i.imgur.com/HdkUOdE.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/CAxShdT.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/7bHb8Tg.png

https://i.imgur.com/Dl240PG.jpeg

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Weird that it shares the chin beautymark that face 5 usually has instead of the one below the eye, but other than that? Despite having a different, more modern visual identity than PC XIV, this is so much more of a faithful recreation that it's actually mind-boggling. And it's all in the simple things, too! That's what's so frustrating!

It's amazing how faithful the mobile FFXIV team is to the original character design. I've just looked through all the screenshots; it's the same faces, the same bone structure, and the facial features are very close to the pre-DT era. Fantastic.

I hope the mobile version recreates Au Ra faces as thoroughly as they recreated other races.

P.S. Dawntrail early access started a year ago.

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Originally Posted by noumen0nn

Despite having a different, more modern visual identity than PC XIV, this is so much more of a faithful recreation that it's actually mind-boggling. And it's all in the simple things, too! That's what's so frustrating!

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Ikr? Ok now I really want to see my old Highlander… if anyone is bored and/or has time! lol

Highlander female, shortest height, muscle 0, bust 90, face 2, skin palest, hair base 255.220.151, highlights 140.172.151, jaw 4, eyes 6 (35.67.73), eyebrows 1, nose 5, mouth 4, lip color 139.55.46, facial features 1 & 2 (brow and eyeshadow)